Weber and Rich Condition

[neverone99]

OK Weberholics...Here is my dilemma...I installed the Redline K740 kit on to my Tercel which has a 4a in it. The car runs GREAT but is running rich. No matter what I do. I have went through the procedure for best lean idle adjustment according to the redline weber documentation multiple times. With the idle speed screw at 1.5 turns the idle mixture screw has to be at 3 turns before the engine flattens out and runs well. Thus the rich condition. Timing is at 13 degress BTDC. I have the Holley 18-204 regulator but haven't checked fuel pressure. I have read this fuel pressure regulator is set from factory at 2.7 psi. The main difference between my install and most Weber installs on this list is that I used the gas filter location on the intake manifold for the PCV. I am wondering if this is influencing anything. Any help would be appreciated! Pics to follow...

[gatemaster]

The webers do not come with the right jets installed from the manufacturerer. I live at an alltitiude of 7200 to 7500 feet above sea level and here are the jetting I use for emmissions and for normal driving.
jetting to pass emissions:
pri.
idle jet 55
main jet 140
air jet 190

sec.
idle jet 50
main jet 150
air jet 165

8 degrees btdc
........................
normal settings when not doing emissions:
pri.
idle 60
main 140
air 180
sec.
idle 50
main 150
air 165

timing 15 degrees btdc

I am beginning to think that the timing is the main difference between passing emissions or failing. Next emission testing I will try the first test by just changing the timing and see if I pass.
If the jetting isn't correct no amount of lean burn tuning will be effective.
A good place for weber parts and good service. http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/group. ... =WEBERDGVP

[neverone99]

Wow! AWESOME info...and much needed! Thank you! I will post back tomorrow with my jet sizes and pics of my setup. Thanks again!

[gatemaster]

If you are at a different alltitude the jetting will be different. I also installed throttle shaft bearings which really smoothed up the throttle and eliminated side loading and wear on the throttle shafts. here is a link if you are interested.
http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/produc ... RecID=5949 I also made a custom adapter out of phenolic resin to eliminate the junky one that comes with the weber kit. The 1 inch thick resin is also a terrific heat shield. Getting rid of the junky adapter also made more room for a better air filter.

[ARCHINSTL]

gatemaster - you've mentioned the shaft bearing device before and it does look intriguing. I think you are the only one in the Club who's installed one of these kits. Pardon me for not going out and looking now (sleeting), but - how is the installation accomplished? I thought the shaft just rode in the carb body - is there a bushing to be removed?
Thanks,
Tom M.

[gatemaster]

Archinstl, The carb body is already designed to accept the bearings. The throttle plates are removed, the bearings slide on the shafts and fit into the carb body and the throttle plates are screwed back on with the new screws that come in the kit. It is an easy install and well worth the time and money.

[neverone99]

So my idle jets are Primary (55) and Secondary (50). I have to back the mixture screw out 4 full turns for the car to idle smoothly and then the car's a mosquito fogger. I called Redline and they said that my Primary idle jet is too small and I need to go bigger. Does this sound right? Should I go 60 on the primary or higher? Should I also upgrade the secondary idle jet? My engine is a 4a not a 3a so it's just a little larger displacement...I know I said I would post pics but I keep forgetting. I'll post some asap.

[deejay1272]

normal settings when not doing emissions:
pri.
idle 60
main 140
air 180
sec.
idle 50
main 150
air 165

timing 15 degrees btdc

Gatemaster:
So it sounds like if I'm running at sea level, I should be looking for jets that are smaller than what you have listed here since I'll have more dense air in my combustion chamber. I'm shooting for good fuel economy here - what sizes would you recommend for me? I was thinking that the following might be a good place to start:

Primary
idle 50
main 130
air 180 (?) (Air jets with larger numbers make the engine run leaner at high RPM - this was news to me).
Secondary
idle 45
main 140
air 165


But I am just guessing here. Any advice is appreciated.

[neverone99]

normal settings when not doing emissions:
pri.
idle 60
main 140
air 180
sec.
idle 50
main 150
air 165

timing 15 degrees btdc

Gatemaster:
So it sounds like if I'm running at sea level, I should be looking for jets that are smaller than what you have listed here since I'll have more dense air in my combustion chamber. I'm shooting for good fuel economy here - what sizes would you recommend for me? I was thinking that the following might be a good place to start:

Primary
idle 50
main 130
air 180 (?) (Air jets with larger numbers make the engine run leaner at high RPM - this was news to me).
Secondary
idle 45
main 140
air 165


But I am just guessing here. Any advice is appreciated.

I think you have that backwards. More air needs more fuel, so you would need larger jets.

[gatemaster]

Air jets are smaller at sea level because the air is denser. That is where I would start. Specific Information on Mixture Screw Setting for:
32/36 DGV, DGEV Carbs. If you have to open the mixture screw more than 2 turns on a 32/36 DGV or 38 DGES your idle jets are too small...If you have to shut them below 1/2 turn they are too big....
First you have to set the idle speed screw so the throttle plate is positioned properly in regards to the holes in the throttle bore. All About Vacuum Leaks: http://www.racetep.com/vacleak.html I spent a lot of time and research before I got mine right. Here is some basic info that might help.
.............................
32/36 DGV, DGEV, DFV and DFEV
These carbs have fixed venturis so the choke size is not an issue. The pump jets are also not a problem. Do not mess with them. If you have a flat spot or hesitation when you first take off then it is likely that the idle circuit is too lean. If you know you have the idle circuit right then the primary main jet is too small. Increase the main jet size 2 steps at a time. (150 main is a 1.5mm hole...Main jets are in steps of 5. eg: 150, 155,160,etc.) Keep checking the plugs after driving it for a few minutes (Do not let it idle when checking the spark plug color for the main jets. Drive the car above 2000-3000 RPM for a few minutes then shut the engine off before letting it idle then check the plugs. If the car then transitions fine but hesitates or falls on it face when the secondary is opened you need to work on the Secondary main jet....
A good option to playing around with your 32/36 Weber jetting is to just get one of our Custom Performance Jetting Kits....We offer these for all Single 32/36 DGV and DGEV applications operating from Sea Level to approx 4000 Ft...Above 4000 Ft you start having more altitude problems and the vehicle needs to be tuned as outlined here. Another good option is to install a Halmeter AF30 Air Fuel Ratio Gauge to help you with tuning. It is fast and accurate and will take alot of the guesswork out of it. This is a particularly valuable tool for cars that get track use so that you make sure you do not lean out and put a hole in a piston...
http://www.racetep.com/webjettune.html
..........................................
I bought one of their performance jetting kits to get me started, here is the link. http://www.racetep.com/rebuildrejet.html they will base the kit on info about your car and the alltitude which will put you in the ball park to start.

[splatterdog]

Strange. Both my out of box and "jetted" kit work great. 30mpg minimum.

Your idle jet needs upsizing. I don't remember exactly, but if you are 2 turns out on the mixture screw or more you need a bigger idle jet.

Most driving is done with only the primaries so start there.

Cylinder #1 will carbon up way ahead of the others if it does all the PCV work. Best to use a more centered source.

[neverone99]

You guys are awesome. I can't believe how great the people on this forum are. Better than any other forum I am a member of except maybe badgerandblade.com and it's a tie between the two...

Back on subject...I have ordered the following:

• *60 Primary Idle Jet
  *65 Primary Idle Jet
  *70 Primary Idle Jet
  *55 Secondary Idle Jet
  *60 Secondary Idle Jet

The nice folks at Redline said that for every two sizes you go on the Primary Idle Jet go up one on the Secondary.

Concerning the PCV, I agree that using #1 intake runner for PCV isn't a good idea. Hindsight is always 20/20...and I have to move it for the mani vac for my distributor anyways. I will move the PCV to the typical EGR location and reinstall the gas filter and use that as the vac source for distributor mani vacuum. I want to say thanks again to everyone on these forums.

@Gatemaster...it makes perfect sense that the air jets would need to be changed according to altitude. You are a genius.

[neverone99]

Update: I have removed the EGR and moved the PCV to that location. I have also hooked the bottom port on the distributor vac can to the gas filter manifold vacuum (which I broke a nipple off of and had to epoxy the hole shut ...) Car runs great, just lean (white sparkplugs). Gonna have to wait until my idle jets come in.

[deejay1272]

(which I broke a nipple off of and had to epoxy the whole shut ...)

Ha! I just did that two nights ago. I had some "Amazing Goop" left over from my shifter boot project so I used a bunch of that and superglued around the base of the gas filter as well. I think there was a slight vac leak at the base of the gas filter because my idle has steadied since doing this.

[neverone99]

(which I broke a nipple off of and had to epoxy the hole shut ...)

Ha! I just did that two nights ago. I had some "Amazing Goop" left over from my shifter boot project so I used a bunch of that and superglued around the base of the gas filter as well. I think there was a slight vac leak at the base of the gas filter because my idle has steadied since doing this.

That's a really good idea. I may get rid of the gas filter all together since after 25 years it is getting to be quite brittle. You can get a metal hose barb off 22re intakes and many other Toyota intakes that is metric and will thread right in to that hole where the gas filter is now but it would be nice to find something with the right size barb on it.