Car will not start

[epara]

New to forum, plus new 1986 Tercel 4wd Dx owner. Recently purchased a 1986 wagon with 123000 original miles. Car is in excellent condition, no rust,dents, tears... Anyways, after purchasing the car, the car started-ran-drove perfectly for a few days. Walk out one morning, start the car. The car starts right up. I walk back in the house as car is warming up ( current outside temp. in Montana on that morning... -10F ). Walk back out to the car 2-3 minutes later, and the car had died, stopped running. Now the car will not start even though the starter turns over. I sprayed starter fluid into carb, car doesn't even sputter. Checked spark plug wires for spark, I have spark. Anybody have any advice? Ignition coil? Igniter? Thanks

[Highlander]

You have fuel and spark, the only things left are compression and breathing. Is the cam rotating (i.e. are the valves opening and closing?) I've never seen a timing belt go during idle, but I haven't seen everything (Yet). Compression test would tell you if it is or not, as would pulling the valve cover.

[epara]

When checking for spark, I took wire off plug, put the wire next to block, and had someone crank starter. I checked two wires and both wires gave off a pretty good spark. I just want to make sure the car isn't having a spark issue. Can I do any other spark test to rule out a spark related issue? As far as checking for compression, do you suggest taking spark plug out and testing compression with finger as someone turns the starter over as suggested on earlier thread?

[Highlander]

That's a good gross test, if the valves aren't opening, then you'll either get both compression and suction (if both valves are closed-remote possibility) or no compression at all (one valve open at least a little). If you have spark, then its not the ignitor Hang on- if you have spark as you turn the engine over, then the cam is rotating- the dizzy runs off of the back of the cam . so I would double check the ignition timing, otherwise I'm stumped too. (I know, that's no help)

[epara]

Update,
I pulled a spark plug and plugged hole with my finger-test. My finger got popped out while cranking the engine over. Is this enough of a compression test, or do I need to check compression in all the plug holes.. Noticed that the spark plug itself appeared black with some build-up, and damp with gas. As I mentioned in earlier post, the car was running perfect. Started the car on a cold morning, went inside the house for 2-3 minuter, came back and the car had stalled out. Is it possible for ignition timing to go out just like that?

[Petros]

welcome to the list!

I would clean the spark plugs and put them back in, or even replace them. Some brands break down internally once they are fouled and must be replaced, now I only use NGK (never had one fail). Your choke might be flooding it for some reason, see if it is operating normally. I presume you have fuel if plugs are wet, but there are only a few things that will stop it from running when it ran fine before, suddenly failed fuel pump or plugged filter (ice in the fuel system?).

It is possible it overheated because your fan did not come on? IF you you may have blown the head gasket (though it will usually run, but not always, with a bad head gasket). If it is bad enough so it does not run a compression test will tell you. If there was not enough antifreeze the rad could have been frozen and the engine overheated because coolant was not circulating (I had that happened to me once many years ago). I just had to replace my head gasket too, they are not too tolerant of overheating.

Good luck.

[epara]

I'll replace the plugs tomorrow, they did look pretty fouled up. As far as the choke is concerned, my question is wouldn't the car sputter a little with the fuel or starting fluid I sprayed in the carb. or will a malfunctioning choke keep the car from sputtering at all.
As far as head gasket issues, I don't think the car was running long enough to over heat, so hopefully that isn't the issue.

Thanks

[splatterdog]

Since there is no loss of spark, this sounds like a choke that isn't opening. Starting .fluid get you nowhere with a flooded engine

Take the air cleaner cover off and close the choke, if it isn't already shut. Right after the engine starts it(the top flap) should open slightly. If not, the choke pull off needs attention. Could just be a vacuum line. See FSM page FU-5. It's called a choke breaker in the manual.

Might as well check all vacuum lines while you are at it.

Almost forgot. Your oil likely needs changing now.

[Highlander]

Thanks Splatter, choke was where I would go next. FWIW, When I start my T4WDs cold, I always hold the RPMs to around 2K until the engine picks up and revs by itself (holding the throttle stable) up to the 3K point. All three of mine seem to run on 2 or 3 until I do this (even the new engine), then its cleared out. I NEVER leave a car running/idling without being inside or outside scraping the windows, you never know what can happen, besides the engine only needs about 30 seconds to 1 minute to get the lubricants moving around.

[4wdchico]

I'd check the sight glass on the carb to determine where the fuel level is. If there is raw gas on the plugs, the fuel level could be way high due to a defective fuel filter allowing a bit of grit to lodge in the needle & seat in the carb and hold the valve open and flood the motor.

Less of a possibility, since you think there is raw gas on the plugs, is frozen water in the fuel line blocking fuel flow to the motor on that really cold morning. The motor would run until the float bowl emptied and then die.

Either way it is an easy check, just look thru the sight glass on the front of the carb.

[epara]

Put new spark plugs on this morning. Still no solution. Checked the sight glass on the carb, fuel level is 3/4 full. Not sure if that is too high or not. While inspecting the carb, noticed the choke side of the carb seems to be getting fuel, while the right barrel of the carb seems dry...

While checking out the carb, I noticed what appeared to be a "split ring" lying on the ground under the passenger side of the engine under the axle. Not sure if it's from the tercel or not. Just coincidence? Check this out

[4wdchico]

Put new spark plugs on this morning. Still no solution. Checked the sight glass on the carb, fuel level is 3/4 full. Not sure if that is too high or not. While inspecting the carb, noticed the choke side of the carb seems to be getting fuel, while the right barrel of the carb seems dry...

While checking out the carb, I noticed what appeared to be a "split ring" lying on the ground under the passenger side of the engine under the axle. Not sure if it's from the tercel or not. Just coincidence? Check this out

The right side of the t4wd carb is the choke side if you are referencing the right side to the forward direction of travel. The drivers side of bore of the carb is the secondary barrel and does not open unless the is near full throttle under load as it is vac controlled.

The ring in the picture looks like a u-joint retaining ring from a domestic RWD vehicle. Could not be from a t4wd as it's driveline u-joints are staked and not removable. Also the t4wd u-joint end caps are way smaller than that.

[hberdan]

Sounds like the timing belt has slipped, not unusual for this car. I've had one slip on me at low rpms, did you change the belt recently, or know if it was changed in the last several thousand miles? Check it out.

[epara]

I'm thinking timing belt also. I was told by previous owner that it "looked" to be in good shape when a new water pump was put on. Just wondering, how well can I examine the timing belt by just taking off the timing belt dust cover.

[Petros]

That is easy. Take the cover off (five 10mm bolts, one is under the water pump pulley so it makes it easier to just remove the pulley), put the timing mark on the lower pulley at zero degrees, and when number one cylinder is at TDC (when spark fires), there is a hole in one spoke of cam timing pulley. look through the hole and it should line up with pointy mark on the front of the head face. there are two larger "points", that should line up on either side of the spoke, and the smaller center one lines up with the hole in the spoke. It it lines up okay than it is not the timing belt.

Usually if the belt is stretched enough to be skipping it might be time to replace it. You will usually see cracks and missing teeth off the belt by then. OTOH it could be the belt tension was just set too loose, so tighten the belt while you are at it.

You can test start it like that with the fan belt off and the timing cover missing, but do not run it long since there will be no water circulating.