Power or lack of

tompat011 · Post by **tompat011** » Wed Dec 29, 2004 3:08 pm

My 86 tercel 4wd has 225k on it, it starts reasonably well and the idle is fine. No matter what I do to it the 'Uphillclimbs', even just a mild grade is a real workout. I have to get a running start, get to the higher 60's, then downshift to 4 at 62 +_ mph to even have a chance of going up interstate hills and you just hold and wait. Is this normal or should I start doing the cat test pipe bit? maintenance has been very good and, at theis time, the only scheduled items are cap and rotor even though it doesen't seem to need it.
A second question: I read in the replacement engine area that any "3" toyota engine would work as a replacement. It SEEMS that the country or orgin uses this designation on most or all of their engines regardless of the brand....is this so? Can I put a 1st generation RX-7 engine in on the offchance that I just may have one.
Teejis

takza · Post by **takza** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 6:30 am

use this if you dare...........

<a href='http://tercel4wd.com/invision/index.php?act=ST&f=7&t=83' target='_blank'>http://tercel4wd.com/invision/index.php ... =7&t=83</a>

tompat011 · Post by **tompat011** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 5:54 pm

Thanks, I really appreciate the reply... I'm printing now....whoops there goes another tree.....Oh well Office Depot is probably getting that from China too...so I guess our trees are a bit safer..
Anyway, I'm going to give it a serious read. I do understand that this has a relatively small engine but it should do better than it is...even slight grades have you slamming the pedal to the floor and downshifting and still dropping speed like the power has been turned off. I wish there was a 'real' test for the cat .....I may do a plumbing job tomorrow if the weather is nice.

Adelard of Bath · Post by **Adelard of Bath** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:03 am

Do cats ever clog up if the engine doesn't burn oil?

Had an 86 Dodge Colt Vista one time, same maroon colour as my tercel, actually I tell people that the two looked the same, except the Tercel is a scaled down version of the Colt, like a model hee hee
It was actually a Mitsubishi product, and the engine was a real piece of crap. Burned oil like a mofo, already had one head job, and it was only like 100k or something. But it was crazy weak too...a mechanic my dad knew suggested to us that maybe the cat was clogged from the copious oil burning (quart every 50 miles? ) but he couldn't do anything about it due to laws...kinda like "nudge nudge wink wink" heh so I rod it out...(I am not proud of it, I don't like it when people willingly do what the can to trash the environment...but the car was an inch from the junkyard)
It didn't really get any better.
Until my dad told the mechanic and he was like "oh I think those Colts had two cats..." so I get under there and yes indeed there was a small one bolted right to the exhaust manifold....obviously there to catch all the oil that was getting past the rings. So that got the special "extra pollution treatment" and THEN it ran great!
As great as a totally underpowered carbed engine with a three-speed automatic can.

I'm not saying that this is what is wrong with your car; in fact, in my experience, I have only seen that one plugged cat, and only cuz it was burning oil like crazy. The factory one in my 79 Volvo with 225k is clean as the proverbial whistle; it unbolts and you can see right through the matrix.

Maybe what is wrong with your car, is the same as what is wrong with my car...the carb just sucks? I'm trying to rebuild it right now but with little success.

takza · Post by **takza** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 6:03 am

tompat011 wrote: Thanks, I really appreciate the reply... I'm printing now....whoops there goes another tree.....Oh well Office Depot is probably getting that from China too...so I guess our trees are a bit safer..

It's not really worth printing it out....I used to print a lot of stuff to make it OFFICIAL...but don't anymore.

China probably doesn't have a lot of trees left...too many people for too many years. Probably using what's left of the worlds rainforest trees or what they can trash in this country....got to make them BUCKS you know.

tompat011 · Post by **tompat011** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 10:10 am

Tazka,
......By the way Happy Birthday-NewYear Combo....

You're right about the Bucks. I'm thoroughly convinced that the new Big-Bucks-Motto is: "Whatever comes between me and my Bucks gotta go, including: Thing,s People and even Family"

I did pretty much what you wrote about and their seems to be a major difference, I'll know this week when trek the highway through
some steep grades this week.
I removed the Cat (for test purposes....)And it was sooty black..So I did some surgery to test it ( already anticipating putting a free-flo cat back on)....but I found a minor problem with that...When I removed the cat I had to disconnect the "air-pipe" from the bracket near the starter...no problem except that the canister that it connects to just fell off!....HMmm, there's no air pump, which explaines the exhaust leak sound I was hearing....talk about second hand smoke!....I capped it for now)....So I either need to get a pump or leave the cat as is or the new cat will just soot up also unless you have some alternatives.
Thanks for all the help, I email you as soon as I test it.

takza · Post by **takza** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:36 am

Just be sure you know what "pinging" sounds like. I WAS running mine set to where it would ping *when tested* up to around 1700 RPM, but decided I was asking for it...now with the NGKs...in summer I lose the pinging at around 1200-1400 RPMs.

You set the timing relative to the pinging...NOT according to a number.

The '84 I took some parts from had the Fed emissions setup with the air pump...my CAL emissions car doesn't have an air pump. Only solution I know of is to put one on the car?

Adelard of Bath · Post by **Adelard of Bath** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 2:01 pm

When I bought my car, i noticed that there was a tube that came out of the cat and went up to the engine, ala the air pumps I have seen in other vehicles, but this one connected to nothing, and I finally found the pump, or what was left of it...what drove the thing? was it belt driven or something?

takza · Post by **takza** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:42 am

Has a v-belt on it and makes it real difficult to get the darned radiator out of the car...bout all I know....

tompat011 · Post by **tompat011** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 11:59 am

I was looking in the manual beause I just could not fathom the previous owner having the pump pulled...at least according to the receipts and records they left. They had EVERYTHING done...so I found that the tube is, in a round about way hooked into the air intake......no pump. Now all I need to do is locate or make up the missing "Link". I can Justify the carboned up cat because the intermediate owner, a dealer, tried to rebuild the carb..and it was a disaster, two thirds of the vacuum lines were mislocated, the capped line was hooked to something and the carb adapter gasket ...well they left one edge of the old gasket on and didn't put any replacement on...that had to be one of the largest vacuum leaks in recent history. And that's how I got this really pristine Toyo for a few hundred denarios....and that same person gave me this wonderful shop manual.....go figure.
I set the timing to +10... and it SEEMS ok. I'm trying to listen for pinging. When I ascend some of these hills this week it should show.....or not.

Adelard of Bath · Post by **Adelard of Bath** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 12:06 pm

So did you rebuild the carb properly then? maybe your secondary barrel is not opening correctly? I always wonder that myself,,,,since I rebuilt it though, I can feel it opening so that is good heh
course right now I have the carb off and the manifolds and the exhaust doh! hehehhe I coudl always just keep tearing down, and just put the pieces in the trash until my garage is empty. I would have to saw up the body though.

takza · Post by **takza** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:44 pm

Maybe you should sit down and meditate on your car and your relationship with it? I don't think you two are getting along so well.

Play nice!

Adelard of Bath · Post by **Adelard of Bath** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 7:43 pm

Actually, I would say that the car and I are getting along quite well for the past several days! I haven't even been out to the garage in the past two days...so that is good...but before that, I just decided to pull the carb off and then the intake and exhaust and I have been having a fun time cleaning up old gaskets, finding broken things, basically, just doing a nice repair job....which is my new theory....before, my plan was to spend as little cash as possible just to get it running, and not only did that not work, but it drove me crazy in the process. So now, I just take my time and do it right and it is much more fun.

It also helps that I work on it like 15 minutes one day, then half an hour the next day, then not at all for two days.....ehehheheheh I have a couple other cars I can drive

I found that the diaphragm on my EGR valve won't hold any vacuum when I use my vacuum pump on it...which basically means...I won't be hooking it back up when I put it back on the car! I thought about making a block-off plate for it and where the pipe connects to the exhaust man, to clean up the area a little bit, but I think I will just put it on there and cap the vacuum ports.

takza · Post by **takza** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:14 am

Just be sure it isn't allowing exhaust to go thru. Mine isn't working right now.

With my collection of used parts....I intend to replace the EVAP stuff and try to get that working right next summer...and I also have a vac modulator I'll plug in to try.

And I got a absolutely pristine TVSV off that car....looks OK anyway. These are very rare...probably will have it gold plated.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 9:01 pm

Tompat011...

I had the same problem with my 4WD wagon. Figured the lack of power was normal, but when my gas milage dropped to about 20 MPG... I knew something was wrong. Lowered the exhaust system and performed surgery on the cat. A cutting wheel helps on the flange bolts. Now the power has increased tremendously, and hopefully the MPG's will too. The previous owner replaced the engine due to excessive smoke, and it must of choked the cat in the process.

Paul