Considering parting 85 4wd SR5

[bajabound]

So here's the sad story - I adopted a lonely little 85 tercel, gave her a good dry home in my garage, and started to diagnose.... I must have diagnosed too long because I'm finding a lot of things wrong. She needs a new head, a new radiator and probably a new carburator... and that could be just the start.

I'm thinking of putting her out to pasture unless anyone in the Seattle/Olympia area has any suggestions on where to find said parts for not too much.

There's a lot of good parts on her, a working 6 speed tranny, new rear brakes, decent interior and some body panels as well. I'm sure that the parts could help a fair amount of Tercels stay on the road a while longer.

So - kill or cure is the question. I'd love to hear some thoughts.

[deejay1272]

Sounds like a trip to a good junk yard could put you back in good standing. Pulling a motor out of any old Toyota is relatively easy. The T4WD takes the 3A, 3AC, the rare 3A-SCV, and there are some series 4 motors that can be installed - see threads throughout (but I'm no expert on these, speak to Petros about this!).

The junk yard option is probably your cheapest/best bet. Either way you slice it, this is a time consuming project, but I've found that the more time I put in on my T4WD, the more I love it!

Good luck!

[bajabound]

I've not had much luck finding Tercel 4wds in local yards. If possible I'd like to find a head for the engine - and avoid an engine swap.

2 thoughts - anyone in the seattle area know who a good salvage yard is? I've been to a couple in the Olympia area - and they didn't have much. I haven't yet gone to the Pull-a-Part, but that's next on the list.

Also, what other vehicles in that age have the same engine? Wikipedia says just the 82-88 tercel has that particular engine. which other cylinder heads that would work for that block

[Petros]

Do not scrap a good T4wd for just a few engine parts! I take her off your hands if you do not want to fix her, I have replaced head gaskets six or seven times on these cars (both on mine and others).

There is a Pull-A-Part here in Arlington, about an hour north of Seattle (exit 206 off I-5, go east about 4 blocks, on your left). Right now they have 6 Tercel wagons, 2 are SR5, 3 are 4x4, and there are lots of 2wd hatch backs with the same engine. Bring your tools and you can get everything you need for under $100 (watch out for the radiators, several ended up there only because they had bad radiators and blew a head gasket).

Why do you think it needs a new head? a failure is pretty rare. What are the symptoms, issues? Perhaps it just needs a new head gasket. You can resurface and lap the valves by hand and get it flat and get the valves to seal with some effort, or take it to a machine shop and have them do these things for about $100. You will only need a head gasket, about $20, perhaps some valve seals, about $12. If you remove the intake/exhaust manifold carefully, without damaging it, you can even reuse it, but they only cost about $12. That should be all you need. Buying a used head from a yard means you have a chance the head might be in the same shape as yours.

Rebuild kits for the carb are about $35, but getting one from Pull-A-Part is only about $10 (you get the luck of the draw, they will take it back within 30 days, but a hassle to come back). I have gotten both good carbs, and junk (so I took it back).

List member Synth and I have been there recently, we might go back again this Sat. You want to join us?

[Toys4US]

Wow, parts are that cheap? I gotta make a trip down there as well... I really don't need that many parts.. but at those prices.. I might just find some extra parts I need or don't need... Its a bit of a drive.. but the savings will make up the difference.

[bajabound]

Do not scrap a good T4wd for just a few engine parts!

Consider me shamed - I'll keep looking for options..

(watch out for the radiators, several ended up there only because they had bad radiators and blew a head gasket).
Why do you think it needs a new head? a failure is pretty rare. What are the symptoms, issues?

It seems likely that my engine had the same thing happen as the ones in the yard. When I pulled the head, the gasket wasn't blown, but the head is pretty warped - (about 0.035"-0.040") I'm not sure that I can machine that much off without problems. Also - to really do the job right, I would need to machine the cam bearing posts as well to keep from stressing the cam and wearing out the journals. All in all, it seems that if I could get a head off another engine, it would be the faster fix.

Regarding Pull a Part - I looked them up and they also have a location in Tacoma - I'm in Olympia, so I might check them first, but it's good to know that there are some tercels in arlington. I haven't had much luck finding them down here.

[Petros]

I have almost twice that much milled off my head, plus .040" over bore and flat top pistons-I am running 11.2:1 Compression (premium fuel only!). The head can handle the resurfacing, but yes, the cam boar should be redone too. The Pull-A-Part head costs about $30, if it is good that is less expensive than resurface, rebore and a valve regrind. That is if the used head is any good. Rebuilding the old head will get you everything fresh, make it last longer but at more cost. Your choice.

BTW, when you get the new head gasket, make sure you do the gasket modification I wrote up over in the repair section. Everyone I remove I put the extra coolant holes in it, and it not only runs better, but head gasket failures are a thing of the past.

[4wdchico]

The cam in our cars runs right in the aluminum of the cylinder head. There are no posts (AKA cam tower) to machine like the old Nissan L-series 4 & 6 cylinder engines that you may be thinking of.

I have heard of some machine shops that will align bore the cam bearings way oversize in a 'yota 22r head and install shell type bearing like on the crankshaft. That procedure is looked down on by most as too spendy and fraught with durability problems.

I would just try to find a straight used head and move on.

[Petros]

The cam journals can be bored just fine to stock size. If the head is warped enough to put the cam journals out of line than line boring the cam journals is normal. They shave a bit off the journal caps and torque them down, and bore it to the same dia. It is not normally necessary, but it can be done.

I had new valve guilds, a ported head, new valves and seals on my head when I blew off a rad hose and really badly overheated it. I was not going to start over with a new head, it was far less expensive to resurface and align bore the cam journals.

[4wdchico]

Pedros,

I would have to guess that machine shops in your area are more adventurous than down here in litigious California. I spoke with a pro machinist & 4ag nut, who I have done business with, earlier today and we discussed this exact issue about an upcoming 4ac build. He said the line bore of the head could be done both with the shell bearing method or with a spray welding treatment to enlarge the cam's journals . He also said that he has a source for used pre-checked builder heads and blocks that delivers a solid/reliable product and that getting a good core head from them would be a cheaper & better way to go.

Your description of the line boring done to your head makes me think about the auto "engineers" in the hinterlands of OZ & NZ who are able to repair lots of car/motorcycle/bike/industrial equipment w/o access to much in the way of "spares" at all. Anthony Hopkins' character in The World's Fastest Indian movie is an example of the type. Those guys machine, cast, weld, forge & fab with wild abandon.

If you would please, three questions:

1) Those flattop pistons you are running, are they from the bluetop 4ag? Flycut for the 4ac valve clearance?

2) I did a bunch of searching and could not find your writeup of the head gasket mod that you do. Could you link it for me?

3) If you were to do it again would you still go with the mild performance grind cam?

Bajabound: sorry for the OT digression.

[Petros]

He said the line bore of the head could be done both with the shell bearing method or with a spray welding treatment to enlarge the cam's journals

He is full of beans, and no "pro" AFAIAC. I have been driving around a head for several years now, with the performance cam and 11.2:1 CR, without ANY issues that had the cams line bored without either. All that needs to be done is mill down the cam bearing caps so to reduce the bearing opening so it can be line bored. The shop that did it routinely builds racing engines, marine engines and some pretty extreme and expensive builds, the owner is friend of mine.

1) Those flattop pistons you are running, are they from the bluetop 4ag? Flycut for the 4ac valve clearance?

2) I did a bunch of searching and could not find your writeup of the head gasket mod that you do. Could you link it for me?

3) If you were to do it again would you still go with the mild performance grind cam?

The flat top pistons were for the 3a engine, .040" over sized, from Sealed Power (Federal Mogle parent company). I can dig up a part number if you want, but according to Tercel4wdrules you can not get them anymore.

Thread is called "another head gasket replacement" picture of mod is on page 2. Here:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4044&hilit=head+gas ... t&start=15 ]

It is shown on a copper head gasket, but I have since switched back to the normal Fel Pro with the same mod, and have not had any issues at all. I have done the same mod on a number of other 3a engines with good results. I may write up a specific "repair guild" procedure for this some time.

I like the Delta Cam regrind, it is excellent for street use. I have no issues with it. If I was to build up a 3ac than that is the cam I would use (some day I may write up a repair guild on building up a performance 3a too). I intend to swap to a 4age some day soon, so that cam in not in my future plans.

[4wdchico]

Pedros,

Thanks, good input.

[Petros]

Pedros,

Thanks, good input.

Ahem, that is "Petros" (greek) not Pedros (spanish). Same name, different language of origin. Petros (roll or trill the "rrr") was what my Greek immigrant parents called me when I was little.

[4wdchico]

Pedros,

Thanks, good input.

Ahem, that is "Petros" (greek) not Pedros (spanish). Same name, different language of origin. Petros (roll or trill the "rrr") was what my Greek immigrant parents called me when I was little.

Sorry about that. I shall endeavor to not make that mistake again.

[Petros]

no problem, just a friendly correction.