new t4 build parts list and specs for mods.

[Krunk]

Quick recap:

If I use 93 Tercel front calipers and rotors what booster and master cyl do I use?

Where can I find OE front shocks with assembly's?

Will KYB EO replacements in the rear have enough travel for the 87 pathfinder springs?

Is there a strut that will blot right in the rear that will work with pathfinder springs?

How much of the pathfinder springs would I have to cut of to achieve a 2.5" lift in the rear?

Thanks again for reading all of this. Jay

[Petros]

You can use the same master cyl, this mod does not change the front to rear bia. You will not have any decrease in pedal effort using the stock master, but you will have more stopping power with greatly reduced risk of overheating and warping the front brakes. The only other Toyota master that can be swapped without a lot of effort that I am aware of is the MR2 master WITH the booster. This will give you reduced pedal effort. There are others that might work, but I do not know of any. You want something with a smaller master piston dia to improve the brake ratio, the MR2 also uses a slightly larger booster.

KYB is one of the only companies that make a gas fill front strut insert, they are decent, I have them on my car and appreciate the improved control. Read the thread on the Barto lift, you have to buy longer shocks to install the longer springs, he lists '80 ford T-bird shocks. I suggest getting a gas filled rear shock as well, you might want to find a shock with about an inch smaller compressed length.

Barto says he got about 3" lift, so that is pretty close to what you want, I would measure stock height and than test install the uncut springs, and than cut one coil at a time off until you get the lift you want. The first coil cut will stiffen the spring about 12 percent, the second coil cut will stiffen it about 14 percent more (and so fourth). the fewer coils on the spring the stiffer the spring becomes.

[Krunk]

Thanks so much for the info petros, any idea on a link for the wheel spacers? Guess ill have to make some.

I wonder if I just called KYB if they could just find shocks for the terc that just have 2-3" more travel but will bolt right in? So if I get the gas filled kyb for the rear I should but the ones for a 1980 T-bird and just swap the bushings? Sounds easy enough when you put it that way.

BY THE WAY, lol drove the TERC home today, lots of laughs, I had to use combo of non-existent brake pedal and e-brake to get it home, at speeds of 55+ and lower speeds on winding roads, its the first rain of the year so slippery, the tags expired some 5-6 years ago(still got blue plates on it)...... so, my favorite part is when i locked them up down a hill and slid right by 2 cops who looked amused and went the other way thankfully. I had wife following me in the 300HP 07 civic SI so they were probably more interested in that. I will get some pics up when it stops raining, I got it parked on a pile of wood chips i made the other day, crazy flexing!! WOOT

[Krunk]

Thanks so much for the info petros, any idea on a link for the wheel spacers? Guess ill have to make some.

I wonder if I just called KYB if they could just find shocks for the terc that just have 2-3" more travel but will bolt right in? So if I get the gas filled kyb for the rear I should but the ones for a 1980 T-bird and just swap the bushings? Sounds easy enough when you put it that way.

BY THE WAY, lol drove the TERC home today, lots of laughs, I had to use combo of non-existent brake pedal and e-brake to get it home, at speeds of 55+ and lower speeds on winding roads, its the first rain of the year so slippery, the tags expired some 5-6 years ago(still got blue plates on it)...... so, my favorite part is when i locked them up down a hill and slid right by 2 cops who looked amused and went the other way thankfully. I had wife following me in the 300HP 07 civic SI so they were probably more interested in that. I will get some pics up when it stops raining, I got it parked on a pile of wood chips i made the other day, crazy flexing!! WOOT

PLEASE NOTE THIS IS ALL FOR A 1983 tercel sr5 4wd

Just got off the phone with KYB technical, they said they had no way of finding out if there was a longer strut for the front that would fit, they did however find a REAR shock I could by new they had exact same mountings as the Tercel, AND THEY HAVE 2.75" more travel then stock Tercel shock did, they said this shock is slightly stiffer then the 1980 T-bird shock, but it is gas adjust. The part number is KG5561, the part number for the stock Tercel front strut insert is 363037. Hope this helps some people out

I also have been looking around for brake parts, just punched in google 1983 toyota tercel rear brakes....found, 83 tercel wagon front vented slotted rotors....i dont get it, I thought you had to change caliper to fit vented rotors? Jay

I just priced out how much to buy completely new rear brakes with hardware drum and wheel cyl.... $93 plus shipping from R1CONCEPTS.COM, thats without shoes. so cheap would have cost me $500 at least for the honda.

[Krunk]

Stopped raining long enough to get some pictures of the back yard and the TERC mashing the wood chip pile


TERCEL IS A BEAST ^^^

RUST^^^

BACKYARD^^^

SWEET ASS END^^

MORE RUST^^

ME HUNGRY FOR MUD!!

some engine pics, pretty nasty but to be expected^

some more motor pics^

Passenger side you can see rear quarter kinda has dent? underside behind tire, says he "backed into a stump"

BRAKE UPDATE: Ok, for everything front and rear brake wise the quote over the phone from R1concepts.com 269.85 with free shipping and thats with tax and premium everything drilled slotted rotors, metalic front and rear pads, caliper rebuild kits for front and rear, and install kits for front and rear with rear wheel cyl's, new drums, and new front brake lines. Pretty good for OE premium replacements, thats whole new brakes for whole car minus calipers for $270 bucks!

[Petros]

I would not bother with using the stock size 11mm (whimpy) rotors, even slotted they are just too light for a 4wd 5 seat wagon. See if you can substitute slotted rotors from a 92 or newer tercel, and get some new calipers for the same, they will bolt up fine, you can even use the same pads. Making 1/8" spacers is easy, you might even be able to buy some somewhere.

[Krunk]

I would not bother with using the stock size 11mm (whimpy) rotors, even slotted they are just too light for a 4wd 5 seat wagon. See if you can substitute slotted rotors from a 92 or newer tercel, and get some new calipers for the same, they will bolt up fine, you can even use the same pads. Making 1/8" spacers is easy, you might even be able to buy some somewhere.

I also have to buy new rims that will fit? and tires, cause I do not think the 92+ tercel brakes will fit on 13's. Can i pull any 92+ calipers or should it be from a hatchback.

Drilled slotted rotors Premium replacement is around $75 for 2 discs, for 92+ tercel its the same, but I have to go get gouged online or at pick ur part for the calipers..... do I only need calipers? I was going to rebuild either caliper no matter which i used...i think all the parts for a 92+ tercel are way more expensive, I know pads are. new calipers for a tercel online are around $150 EACH.

WAIT....is it 92+ tercel or 93+? cause if I look for 93+ they have ABS, if I look for 92 they don't have abs... please specify what years of tercel to grab the brakes off.

[Krunk]

Yeah really need to know if its 92+ or 93+ cause 93+ says I have 2 options abs and exc abs w/e that means and in 92 there is no options, confusing me, please help. Should I try to get the calipers and rotors from a wagon? what model of tercel should I try to swipe brakes off of? wiki says 91-99 are all the same gen and list no changes in brakes.....sigh Ok so looks as long as i get 94 tercel front calipers, rotors, pads and lines ill be good on the front brakes just need to make some spacers.

I was on WIKI and seems like they changed the corolla so much, I think some people where getting Camry springs and hats and swapping them on t4's? here are the years of different springs and struts as I see it: 79-82, 83-86, 87-90, 91-94, 95-98 seems like after each of these periods the Camry was changed a lot so I doubt the front struts would be the same after such a change. I am thinking 83-86 springs? do I have to drill new holes to mount the new hat? I found somewhere that someone used a 86 Camry spring and hat, this was a direct fit with no modding? All my notes and reading is starting to get jumbled and I am pretty confused at this point from hearing various different things from multiple sources.

Please when giving advice get the year make and model right as it would cost me hundreds if I get the wrong parts.

[Petros]

Synth and I were at the local yard and discovered something very useful. The front struts on the '88-92 Corolla GTS and All-trac are the same! The GTS is not only far more common, but there are lots of aftermarket performance strut builders that have GTS from strut assemblies available. This GTS front strut is 2.5" dia and has a heavier spring (for the heaver cars they area for), it will swap into the Tercel4wd with a few minor modes.

The whole strut and spring assembly will bolt into the tercel once you swap out the had or top mount (easy swap). The only other issue is the GTS and All-strac strut use 14mm bolt shank to mount to the steering knuckle assembly, and the Tercel uses 12mm shank bolts. so either you have to use a filler or weld a washer on to the strut mount with a 12mm hole, or ream out the Tercel knuckle mounts to 14mm. The strut looks a lot more beefy with the 2.5" dia strut tube and those heavy duty springs, I can not wait to try a pair on my Tercel.

BTW Krunk, I am almost certain the larger brakes will work just fine with the stock 13" steel wheels, there should be plenty of room. Eeven so I would suggest switch to 14" wheels, the 13" are just to flimsy, they flex and make the handling mushy. 14" alloy wheels make a noticeable difference in responsiveness and control.

[Krunk]

So, if i buy struts for a GTS should I still swap the 86 camry springs in for the 2" lift or with the GTS struts be so much stronger that they will provide a lift in themselves?


I also, in response to the 14" wheel I originally wanted to keep the stock wheels and repaint them and then just put a bigger tire on them hoping to absorb the TERRAIN with beefier tires. See if I could get some mud tires for some 13" in rims....


AFTER SEARCHING FOR MANY HOURS, I came appon these........
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... vi-content


WILL THEY WORK?

[Petros]

The GTS springs are heavier than the Tercel springs, so they might give you the lift you want buy themselves. OTOH, you might want the stiffer Camry springs since this is a heaver car than the corolla, and it will give you more lift. Why don't you wait for someone to try the Corolla GTS springs before you buy any if you want to be on the safe side, or you get to experiment for yourself with both springs.

Not a lot of selection of 13" tires, if you want to absorb the terrain with large soft tires the car will have a soft and unresponsive feel both on and off road. I do not care for mushy steering response, so I went with the 14" wheels as a compromise between off road rim protection and responsiveness. If you intend to build a "rock crawler" out of the Tercel, get the largest tires you can fit under the body. Even though I use my 4wd daily to get home, I still drive 90 percent + on paved roads, so I want good behavior on the highways too.

Those spacers may work if they will fit inside the rotor hub, you will have to measure that. I used only 1/8" shims to center my rotors on the caliper, this might work with the taller Corolla or MR2 rotors. I would suggest getting longer wheel studs if you add this much thickness to the rotors, and these will offset your wheel further out too (giving better clearance perhaps).

[Krunk]

If I move up to 14" tires I would probably try to get away with running something like this, I want it to be "FAAR OUUUT" looking.

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/4/ ... zmap=18760


Yeah I looked around, nothing in the 13" except ATV tires...which could work but might get pulled over on the street...as far as clearance I was going to put some big old flares on there, noT looking to put something so big on there that I have to tub it, BUT something skinny but HIGH with a strong sidewall but grabber type tread. like whats in the link. If I go to 15" rims....you can get anything.


Shock issue, I think I will wait, not likely my shocks are going to fall out anytime soon....and since I have no brakes currently doesn't look like I'm driving anywhere in it. I am not going to get into the brakes in the rain either...looks like I have to set up a car tent...anyways.

I think if you could imagine it...I am looking to build something that looks like a jeep almost, I like the skinny stance of a jeep and the long wheel base of the tercel, easy to roll but looks cool. I do not honestly think I could lift it high enough to make it look like I want. I do not even want to try, to much fab work, better of buying a 85 straight axle. For some reason I keep pulling away from the endurance look and going for bogger/rock crawler. So sorry, got to remember what im working with here.

On another note, I have a 91 civic dx hatchback for sale $10,000.000 takes it home.

Here is a link to all the super swamper tires, I really like the way the bias tires look and work, these fit on a 14x6.5 rim and are 7 inches wide. 28" tires wonder if they will fit?

http://4wheelonline.com/SuperSwamperTSLTires.344.124022


QUOTE:
Just got off the phone with KYB technical, they said they had no way of finding out if there was a longer strut for the front that would fit, they did however find a REAR shock I could by new they had exact same mountings as the Tercel, AND THEY HAVE 2.75" more travel then stock Tercel shock did, they said this shock is slightly stiffer then the 1980 T-bird shock, but it is gas adjust. The part number is KG5561, the part number for the stock Tercel front strut insert is 363037. Hope this helps some people out

[SynthDesign]

Krunk...

You seem to be asking the same questions and not really understanding what we have been saying

Quick replies:

I have the stock 13" wheels with 93 tercel calipers and the rims fit fine, little tite but no problems.

The spacer you listed from summit won't work as they are for a 5 bolt lug pattern.

ATV tires will not work for any type of road driving. 24" is as big as you can go w/o a lift and spacing out the wheels or changing off set. Anything bigger will hit the bottom of the strut perch unless spaced out. Also BIG tires weigh a lot more. As much as 6 times the stock wheel. This means hard to stop and get up to speed with our under powered wagons.

Great off road tires at a good price.. http://www.racetire.com/products/hankook_r201.htm

ABS has nothing to do with rotor size or caliper or spacing. It shouldn't maker a lick of difference for us doing swaps.. seriously.. I think it's just the parts people tryin to discourage and confuse you. I didn't see a difference between the caliper or rotors either while at Pull A Part.

The strut Bearing plate is proprietary to our Tercels. If you swap springs and spring hats, you will still need the stock tercel bearing plate to mount onto the frame.

[4wdchico]

Honestly I would not suggest making this car your lifted/ big tired t4wd. The '83-'84 t4wd has higher geared 1st, 2nd & reverse gears AND the higher (lower numerically) 3.73 final drive ratio in the diffs. This makes them really bad candidates for slapping bigger tires on. That and the '85 & up cars have an engine that has better low end power as well. Stalling out, wasted clutches, not enough torque at the wheels to get out of a tight spot & major Tourette's moments, all of these things are much more likely to happen on an '83-'84 t4wd when driven off road, even with stock diameter tires. Slap bigger diameter/heavier wheels on those earlier t4wds and it will be much worse...

I own both an '84 and a '85 t4wd. The difference that the gearing/engine tuning makes driving in the mountains on the pavement is very noticeable and off road the difference is huge.

Not looking to quash your enthusiasm for the concept, just want you to know that the later year t4wds would fit in with your plans much better before you throw a bunch of time & money into your '83.

[Krunk]

I guess one of my previous posts was lost, but those super swampers where pure sarcasm due to the fact that I had trouble finding any acceptable tires for a 13" rim.
Looks like I will upgrade to a 14" rim and go for those previously linked hankooks R201. I am only looking for about a 2 inch lift, and not going to be doing anything extreme, I am building it for looks and functionality if ever needed.

Priced out a couple different places for brakes, looking for premium replacement Drum parts and 94 tercel front discs, seems like everywhere is pretty much the same, some offer free shipping after purchasing above a certain price.