To swap or not to swap? Ice racing Tercel

[Petros]

There is an old thread on this forum where someone put a TBI injector from Metro on the 3a engine. They got everything they needed off the Metro at a wrecking yard for about $70. Sometimes a weber shows up on Ebay, but used they cost about $150-200, and you still need to make the adapter and likely have to buy (or make) an air filter that will fit under the hood. I would go with the Metro TBI injector, simple and reliable, and much better than the stock carb.

If you go megasquirt multi-port injection, you will have a lot of time into making a manifold, and the megasquirt is also costly. They too sometimes show up on ebay used, but not very often.

[takza]

If anyone does a search...I think it was a Suzuki TBI system...self contained...just needs a high pressure fuel pump added. Suzuki...Metro used the same engine at times?

[shanehutton]

I was planning on using a single TBI with the megasquirt controlling the fuel. If these people were using the TBI from the Suzuki, what were they using to control the injector?
I have seen a bunch of Webber 32/36 on ebay but I don't know if they are all the same or not. Does anyone know if I can use a 32/36 off ANY car as long as I make an adapter for the carb>manifold connection? Is there a specific 32/36 I should be looking for?

[teranfirbt]

You'll want to get a DGV series. There are 3 different types, DGEV (electric choke), DGAV (coolant choke) and just DGV (manual choke). I've got a DGEV on mine and it works great, although getting the choke set right was a little finicky.

[shanehutton]

Other that that, all the Webber 32/36 will be the same? I have also seen manual choke conversion kits so I assume those could be fit onto the other 2 making them DGV models.

[Petros]

Suzuki Swift and the Geo Metro are exactly the same car. Parts for the Suzuki are somewhat costly, I bought a Suzuki Esteem for my daughter, it had a blown engine so got it cheap. Was debating rebuilding it or just get an engine from the local Pull-a-Part. The gasket set from Rockauto was something like $470, each piston was $125, nothing is inexpensive about parts for this car. The service manager for a chevy dealer, who also servcies the Geo Metros, tells me the suzuki parts are 2 to 3 times the chevy parts, and even highter than the other Japan made parts sold under the Geo or Chevy name.

So I bought a complete running engine from Pull-A-part for $165, installed it and was done with it. If I could not get parts at the yard for it I would sell the car. There are lots of Metros and Swifts in the wrecking yards.

[takza]

If these people were using the TBI from the Suzuki, what were they using to control the injector?

As I remember...this system had no computer other than what was built into the TB....he didn't put it on the street...just got it to run.

[gatemaster]

anyone know any more information on this metro TBI ?

[takza]

It was the guy who helped get the original Yahoo group started...he still has a website where he mentions this TBI setup. Just search Suzuki on here? I've never figured out why people plop big $ into webers when this setup was so easy to do.

no longer there?

http://www.geocities.com/gasolinefumes/hornbeam.html

...check the wayback machine?

[animeracing]

The 4a and 3a carb are not the same (even if they are the same size). I had a chance to take a close look at a 4ac carb in the local yard last Friday. The connections are all different, they have vac ports in different locations. Not that you could not make it work, but I decided there was too much difference between them to make it worth the effort. There are even differences in the 3a carb from year to year, but not that much.

List member Tercel4wdrules has the idea to fit a 20R truck carb to the 3ac. They are similar in design but the 20R carb is larger, and it would be cheap (about $15 from my local Pull-A-Part). Has anyone tried that carb swap yet? They have all the right connections so you can make it appear smog compliant, and likley you could pass both visual and exhaust inspection for areas that require testing to register your car.

Even with stuff moved around from year to year and for the different models they came in, the Aisan carb for the 2A/3A/4A are apparently all the same size. You can take the parts you need from one and just repair the core of whatever vehicle it's on, or just swap out one carb for another if it happens to be from a more powerful/less restricted verson.

The 20R carb swap was done by a TercelOnline.com member long ago. I think they got it off a Celica 20R rather than the HiLux. Worked like a charm, but took awhile to get it set up and working correctly. Fuel delivery improved the power and torque over the bottleneck stock carb, but not so much mileage. For the price though, it's probably more in line with the budget nature of most T4WD builds.

The thing about used Weber carbs is half the time they need so many parts, you'll be up to 2/3 the price of a new kit after you've bought the used carb and parts, plus the adapters if it's for any other vehicle. Webers are worth it if you're a real gearhead and into fine tuning your carb, since the easy availability of parts and a wide knowledge base lets you make a Weber work on most anything carbureted. The price of admission is actually pretty reasonable, especially if you consdier rebuilt stock carbs are $200+, and remanufactured ones are often more expensive than a complete Redline/Weber kit.

[shanehutton]

So, I found a 4age on the cheap. I want to make the most power for the least work. It's a race car so I don't care about hood clearance, exhaust routing, emissions etc.

-Can I just use the head on my 3ac bottom end? I don't know if it would be an issue with valve to piston interference. If it would fit would this be a good idea?

-If not, does anyone have info on swapping in the complete engine and wiring?

[dlb]

hey shane, check out this thread:

http://www.tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtop ... =4age+swap

[Petros]

the head is almost identical, but doing a whole engine swap is just as easy, and you get the more displacement of the 4ac engine. I would do the swap, only a few items you have to switch over, like the oil pan, carb, etc.

[shanehutton]

Thanks guys. I read that link but it kinda dies and the details are never fully covered. Did that swap ever get finished?

-I know I need to use the 3a flywheel and have it re-drilled for the 8 bolt crank
-What about the starter? If I use the stock 4ag one does it line right up with the flywheel?
-Are there any sensor to flywheel issues?
-Which alternator do I use? I am not using PS if that matters?
-I know I need to use the oilpan off the 3a but are there any fit issues or does it bolt right on.
-I know the exhaust downpipe needs creativity to clear the steering.
-Can I keep the stock clutch cable etc?
-Is there anything else that isn't listed here that is anything but a straight bolt in?
-Will the stock 4ag or 3a coolant hoses work with the 3a radiator?

[Mac]

do a 20V swap