Now that the weber is installed (Thanks again Splatter!) my next task is to do a complete front-end overhaul on my 85 T4wd SR5. I was hoping some of the gurus here would chime in here. Please think of it as a kind of wish list or "dream team" if one was to go all out. The front of my tercel is quite "loose". I know at least one of the rotors is warped causing a shimmy at hard stops. One of the CV's are clicking slightly (got replacements already) Splatter pointed out some rotten sway-bar bushings and I do believe the struts are shot. It also pulls significantly to the right at cruising speeds. The wheel bearings seem to be okay (Splatter confirmed while up on the rack)
I love this car and don't mind sticking money into it. Lets hear a list eh
i would fool no one if i said i was a guru on this forum, but i'll give you my input anyway. i think there are two frames of mind on this: if it ain't broke don't fix it, and do it while you got it apart. i personally aim for somewhere in between--if only one CV is causing a problem, only fix the one. don't create unnecessary work and mess with things that are working ok unless you can foresee it becoming a problem in the near future. that being said, here's what i would do based on what you've mentioned.
-for the shimmy while braking, replace rotors and pads. like you said, one or both are probably warped. brakes should always be done together, as in both front or both rear brakes.
-replace the CV that clicks, check the other boot for tears. if the boot is torn, remove the CV and wash it in paint thinner or a similar solvent and take a good look for wear. if it looks good, just throw new grease in and put a new boot on it.
-definitely do the sway bar end bushings, they're pricy as sh*t but seem to be a real weak point on tercs. i'm in the middle of doing mine right now and found the old metal tube had ground itself into dust--pretty serious! check the sway bar to body bushings as well.
-to check the struts, just put some weight on one front corner of the car and let it up. if it bounces up and then back down, you're fine. if it bounces any more than that, replace the strut.
-pulling to the right is likely your alignment but it could be affected by other front end issues, or even unequal tire pressures. to check your tie rods, jack the front of the car up and grab one of the tires with one hand on either side. try to push and pull with both hands. if there's a lot of play, the tie rod needs to be replaced. if not, it's fine. after your done all your repairs, check the alignment (do a search on the forums for it, it's pretty easy to do) and if it's then, realign it. it's just a matter of undoing the nut on the tie rod and twisting the tie rod into or out of the sleeve to toe your wheels in or out, respectively.
I saved up and did all at one time (well, almost at one time):
2007 - New CV axles; strut inserts, covers, and mounts; springs; swaybar front and end all bushings and metal bits; control arm-to-body bushings; and ball joints.
I had replaced the motor/trans mounts and steering rack bushings the year before, and all new brake stuff that year as well.
I had already done inner and outer tie rods in late '05, as I did not think they would pass MO's inspection; however, had I not done it then, I would have done them as a matter of course in late 2007 when I did the aformentioned suspension work.
Was it some bucks for an investment? Heck Yes!
Why do it all at one time?
Goldie is rust-free, and is my DD, so I will be keeping it - well, forever, I guess.
I did not want to be forever on my back on a gravel driveway, especially if something gave up the ghost during the Winter (no garage). I figured that these parts had lasted over 20 years, so if I get 20 more years out of them - by then I'll be having gruel spooned into my mouth (if I'm lucky).
Also - after reading about some of the swaybar failures - I'm glad I did it and caught mine before they had gone too far.
About the only things remaining are the front wheel bearings - maybe later this year. And, of course, all of the bushings and bits for the rear end - but - the front end was MUCH more important.
Tom M.
T4WD augury?
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit." T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"
"Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates." Mark Twain
Questions: I'm on Rockauto right now, seeing "sway bar frame bushing" to body but not the sway bar end bushings (unless I'm reading it wrong) I vaguely remember Splatter saying this might be a Toyota only part (it was midnight)
How about control arm bushings? reliable test? extremely difficult to swap out, or just difficult? According to my manual, doesn't look TOO difficult, but we're talking Chiltons here.
I did the strut test...seems fine to me. possibly a half a bounce if I really get it going.
I'd do the whole front end if you plan on keeping the car. These babies are old and made from recycled steel beer cans.
I do agree, however, there is no need to do everything at once. If you think there is a problem, inspect and repair/replace, as needed, otherwise, drive on. I've replaced the sway bar and bushings, the strut cartridges twice, CV half axles twice, but have only needed to replace one lower control arm, and one wheel bearing so far, and no ball joints yet. No need for extra time and expense if things are working...
An alignment is always good.
"I'm high on the real thing: Powerful gasoline, a clean windshield, and a shoeshine."
I decided some time ago that I was keeping this thing for forever.
I knew I had to deal with the fr end but while I bought most of the parts in 1 or 2 goes the install didn't go as smoothly. Due to time constraints it was replaced in piece-meal fashion.
If I could do it all over again, I would have done it all in one go.
That being said, it was kinda cool to replace one wheel bearing and go wow, that made a difference. I cannot say what individual part gave the most satisfaction on replacement, but each time I replaced something it was huge.
I would say that if the budget allows, go whole hog, if not, do what is worst first and work your way up from there.
One side note, my wheel bearings checked out fine, replacing them still made a huge difference.
Same for balljoints and tie-rod ends, no play but boy, what a difference.
When I replaced the strut bushings, I was amazed at how, before they would spin round and round with nary any resistance, yet with the new ones were in, it took two hands and significant body weight to move the strut. BJ's showed no play but again were easy to move about, new ones were so stiff I could barely move them by hand.
One last item, I had nasty pulsation going on and was about to replace the front brakes (again) but when I was doing the rears, I found H/B cables to be seized on partially, new cables installed and the rear brakes adjusted and HOLY COW, no more pulsation.
I had already convinced myself my problem was all in the front, another lesson learned.
Thanks to everyone who's given good and usefully advice here.
I just got off the phone with Dan at Butler Toyota in Indy, Indiana (Thanks ARCH...for linking me up with them) I have sway-bar bushings coming (both ends and body bushings, with metal collars and washer/lock nuts) I've got new rotors and pads coming from Autozone. That's probably going to be my first wave of front end overhauls (along with an alignment)
These cars are worth it. Dan said he gets a lot of die hards calling him about the T4wds, so much so that he now keeps some of the parts on the shelves.
My 4wd Van is starting to feel left out. I might need to break er out for a little camping trip soon....
HOORAY !
I told you Butler had good guys (also knowledgeable) at the parts counter! And NO! - I ain't getting a discount/kickback - although it might be an idea to pursue...
You mentioned "both ends;" does this mean you are ordering the plethora of parts/bushings for the rear end of the car? If so, please do us all a favor when you get the invoice and post the OE part numbers and costs in the Parts Forum as I did for the front - it will help those who do not deal with Butler - and maybe the Canadian members as well.
Tom M.
T4WD augury?
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit." T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"
"Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates." Mark Twain
The FSM just mentions checking the alignment... I replaced everything, so did an alignment myself. I would not think replacing just the swaybar stuff would require an alignment.
Tom M.
T4WD augury?
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit." T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"
"Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates." Mark Twain
hey bud. i just did my sway bar bushings and it was actually super easy except i was a bonehead and tried to put the sway bar back in UPSIDE DOWN. so a word of advice: don't do that. i figured it out when it just wouldn't quite bolt up. my alignment was still fine after doing the bushings. i just did the right CV though and my alignment is now out a little bit, so maybe check that after you do the axles.
what sucks is that i STILL have my old arch-nemesis, the front right corner mystery clunk. the next place i'm looking after doing the sway bushings and CV is the holes in the lower control arms that the sway bar ends sit in. i noticed those holes were a little worn when i put the new bushings in in my excitement i didn't pay too close attention so now i want to take the bushings out and take a good look to see if the sway bar end is rattling in that hole when i go over bumps.
it's a process but i'll track the bastard down eventually.
oh, and advice if you do the CV while at home alone: leave the car in gear with the park brake on and crack the 30 mm nut on the end of the CV before you jack it up. otherwise you need someone to stand on the brakes. those nuts are done up pretty tight so you'll quite likely need a big bar with a snipe.
it started raining on me today (imagine that) so didn't get as far as hoped. I did learn that axle nut trick the hard way via festivas and metros. I'll report back when finished. Sounds like you and I are both moderate mechanics..not pros, not dumbies. A good place to be.
davidlucasbarnes wrote:hey bud. i just did my sway bar bushings and it was actually super easy except i was a bonehead and tried to put the sway bar back in UPSIDE DOWN. so a word of advice: don't do that. i figured it out when it just wouldn't quite bolt up. my alignment was still fine after doing the bushings. i just did the right CV though and my alignment is now out a little bit, so maybe check that after you do the axles.
what sucks is that i STILL have my old arch-nemesis, the front right corner mystery clunk. the next place i'm looking after doing the sway bushings and CV is the holes in the lower control arms that the sway bar ends sit in. i noticed those holes were a little worn when i put the new bushings in in my excitement i didn't pay too close attention so now i want to take the bushings out and take a good look to see if the sway bar end is rattling in that hole when i go over bumps.
it's a process but i'll track the bastard down eventually.
oh, and advice if you do the CV while at home alone: leave the car in gear with the park brake on and crack the 30 mm nut on the end of the CV before you jack it up. otherwise you need someone to stand on the brakes. those nuts are done up pretty tight so you'll quite likely need a big bar with a snipe.
One way I like to check a front end is to have someone work the steering wheel back and forth while I check the parts underneath. This is done with the car sitting on the ground. If you have power steering, then the engine must be running so make sure you can trust the person behind the wheel. You will see if any parts have excessive play.
If your car has nothing bent, and the alignment was good to start off with, and all the worn parts are replaced, it SHOULD all go back together with good alignment. However, in the world of old cars, nothing is ever quite what it was like when it was new, or it is even possible some alignment jockey reset the alignment without replacing any work out parts, so it is more likely than not your alignment will be a off after you refresh all the worn out parts up front. Hence the advise to get the alignment checked after you replace the suspension parts.
If it were me, I would replace all the parts, verify the tires are the same size and properly inflated, and drive it some and see how the alignment feels (presuming you know how a properly aligned front end should feel). If there is any shimmy or pulling, or you notice uneven tire wear, than have the alignment done. You can try a do-it-yourself alignment, but it is a lot of work to do well without special alignment tools (toe-in is not too bad to do yourself, see the thread on the subject). It is usually not worth the effort since a good front end shop can do a check pretty fast and relatively inexpensively.
