Peak oil happened in 2008...and YOU missed it!

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takza
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Peak oil happened in 2008...and YOU missed it!

Post by takza »

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/ockhamsrazor/s ... 886142.htm


The bulk of the world's oil production comes from a relatively small number of very large
fields discovered decades go. Most of these very large fields now show declining
production. The total rate of world oil production has only been maintained at current
levels by finding and bringing online, an increasing number of smaller fields. The
financial cost, and the energy required to find and develop these new, smaller fields is
constantly increasing. In 2008 the IEA looked at the production from all current fields
and how rapidly it would decline. They also predicted how much oil would be produced in
future years from as yet undeveloped fields and fields that might yet be discovered. The
result? They saw less future oil production than their previous estimates but,
nevertheless, oil production in 2030 would be higher than today, so there was a little
room for economic growth.

But was the IEA correct? This is where the story gets very interesting and Professor
Aleklett in Uppsala re-enters the picture. Professor Aleklett heads a group of research
scientists called the Global Energy Systems group at the Angstrom Laboratory of Uppsala
University. In recent years these scientists have been developing mathematical models of
oil production from individual oil fields. They re-analysed the numbers in the IEA's
field-by-field bottom-up analysis. They found that they could agree with most of what the
IEA predicted - namely the decline rate of existing fields and the volumes of accessible
oil in known but undeveloped fields and in fields that might yet be discovered. However,
they found a glaring error. The IEA had predicted future rates of oil production from
undeveloped and yet-to-be-discovered fields that were far, far too high. When they took
the IEA's data and imposed rational but nevertheless extremely optimistic limits on future
production rates, they saw to their astonishment, that the maximum rate of oil production
that the world would ever achieve was in 2008.
That's right - the so-called 'peak' of oil
production was actually two years ago and we have now begun the long downward trend in oil
production that will characterise the second half of humanity's oil era.

The re-analysis of the IEA's own data by the Global Energy Systems group showing that we
have passed the peak of oil production is the scientific equivalent of a 'slam dunk'. It
is a beautiful piece of work and I have been privileged to help them prepare it for
publication. I find it fascinating to see other analyses are also giving similar results.
Indeed, an analysis by Australia's own Macquarie Bank, not of actual oil production but of
oil production capacity, predicted declining capacity after last year, 2009.

Since the IEA produced its bottom-up analysis the financial crisis has hit the oil
industry hard. Much oil exploration and oilfield development has been cancelled and this
will accelerate the decline in world oil production. The implication is that, when or if
the world economy tries to grow out of its current slump, we will see demand exceed supply
and oil prices will spike to a level that will, once again, cause an economic fall.
Unfortunately, unless alternative sources of energy are found and developed, and quickly,
the importance of oil to the world economy means that economic growth will follow the
declining production of oil downwards for many years and probably decades. From a
scientific point of view, there can be no return to the long and heady days of economic
growth seen earlier this decade, no matter what leading economists of heads of reserve
banks may think to the contrary. As a scientist, and with my two young children in mind, I
think we need to be looking urgently at the implications of energy decline for the most
important things in life. This is especially true for food production which, in
industrialised nations, is highly dependent upon abundant supplies of oil.

We can no longer afford to sit around discussing whether or not we have passed the peak
of oil production. We cannot wait, complacently, for price signals to stimulate the
development of alternative sources of energy since oil prices will fluctuate wildly. Every
time the economy tries to grow, oil demand will exceed supply, causing the oil price to
spike up. This will strangle the economy, reduce oil demand and cause the price to fall.
Oil companies cannot invest in the face of these wild fluctuations in price. Most
importantly, we must remember that to do anything at all requires energy. So, while oil is
still relatively abundant, we must invest as much as we can to develop the energy sources
of the future. Once the oil supply starts to decrease significantly, we will be too busy
just trying to keep food production and essential services running to have any energy left
over for building expensive high-tech alternative energy infrastructure.

The peak of oil production was two years ago. For the sake of my children, and your
children, we need to just accept that fact and deal with it. When it comes to investing in
energy alternatives, do it now, because it will not be possible later......

....................................

Now....put your fingers in your ears and go....la...la...la...la...la...la...la...la...la...la...la...la... :roll:

I didn't see no peak oil go by! :mrgreen:
Give a boy a gun-give a biatch a cell phone-and pretty soon you almost got yourself a police state.

Orwell said: War is peace! Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength...

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Petros
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Re: Peak oil happened in 2008...and YOU missed it!

Post by Petros »

Takza,

this is nothing more than fortune telling. There is little supportable data here, they seem to think they have the ability to determine how much is in the reserves, and how much is in all the untapped reserves, and in all of the estimates reserves (which historically have always been way underestimated). I have followed this kind of reporting for the better part of 30 years, and it has not changed, we have been on the verge of running out of oil since 1910. They have never been correct about this in the past, there is no reason they are correct now. Likely this is just a scam to justify falsly driving the cost up. do not fall for it.

I have read almost identical "expert" analysis in 1979, it was all wrong. but yet the major media keeps coming back to these same discredited "experts" (i.e.fortune tellers). How can any group of "experts" have been so wrong for so long and still have any credibility? Ever consider that is just the kind of dooms day reporting that sells news? And falsely drives prices higher. The real news, which is not really news, is we have from 400 to 700 years worth of known reserves. There is no panic, there is no news, so they can not sell news if it does not scare people. they can not raise prices unless there is panic buying. Do not fall for it, do your own research of actual data. Try becoming informed, not just opinionated.
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takza
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Re: Peak oil happened in 2008...and YOU missed it!

Post by takza »

:mrgreen: Talk about a fantasy....?

You should really READ this....

http://www.informationclearinghouse.inf ... e25306.htm

Would your military lie?

http://www.jfcom.mil/newslink/storyarch ... 2010_o.pdf
Give a boy a gun-give a biatch a cell phone-and pretty soon you almost got yourself a police state.

Orwell said: War is peace! Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength...

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Re: Peak oil happened in 2008...and YOU missed it!

Post by 4wdchico »

If all those projections that takza refers to are accurate, it is not entirely a bad thing. It does mean that there will be a whole lot less enormous vehicles with a single passenger in them being driven around here in the US. Once fuel costs go up enough people will start to actually change their habits. People will think twice about buying that house that will involve a 100+ mile drive to work. A whole lot of bicycles will be pulled out of storage and dusted off and actually ridden. Those folks riding bikes will get healthier and happier.

Energy firms will still want to sell energy. Once the price of petro fuel gets high enough, less and less will be bought & their profits will shrink. There is only so much price elasticity in the market. Those firms will want to have energy to sell to the public at an attractive price, so they will look to other sources of it like wind, solar & geothermal. The market for the cheap & light plug in electric errand vehicle will explode. Many folks will find that these little run around cars are so handy that they will use the petro burning car less and less. A lot of people will give up on owning the petro cars and just rent them for long trips. Charging stations for EV's will become common at shopping destinations, not so much as a profit center, but to draw in the customers.

No, it won't be all sweetness and light. There will be transitional growing pains. Some people who were already living on the edge will really suffer. Yes, some of them will even die. But since this energy transformation simply must happen eventually, I am in favor of getting on with it now. The sooner we actually start weaning ourselves off of petro fuel, the easier & cheaper the transition will be.
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Re: Peak oil happened in 2008...and YOU missed it!

Post by splatterdog »

4wdchico- that's pretty much how I feel. People unable to adapt to change will be hardest hit by any crisis. Look at all the people that would be totally lost without their cell phone. Mankind survived for a very long time without things we currently take for granted.

If all the wells dried up today would I die? Not likely without WW3 happening. Those without survival or any other practical skills, maybe.

Cheer up takza, it might help clear the cloud of despair over you.
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Re: Peak oil happened in 2008...and YOU missed it!

Post by So_Powerful »

As a geologist I think I can provide some insight into this situation, though I specialize in hydrogeology I did have to learn about how oil is created. I've also taken some statistics.

Firstly. yes, humans are currently consuming more oil then the Earth can produce. So we will run out. Demand is always increasing for oil.

Secondly, exploration has declined to find oil because all the economically viable fields have been found (there may be a small number that haven't). As demand increases, the price will increases and smaller fields that weren't economically viable will become viable. Oil companies can field oil but choose not to mine it because the cost of mining it either exceeds or cancels out the return.

I agree with 4wdchico there are going to be good things that come out of it. Climate change should begin to go back to "normal" as we will no longer be burning as much fossil fuels. People will look for alternative forms of transportation to work. I for one, am in favor of trains for transportion(Subways, maglevs, Light Rail, Speed trains). It will be interesting to see how the world reacts. Might have to convert the tercel to solar power.
takza
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Re: Peak oil happened in 2008...and YOU missed it!

Post by takza »

I'm not really depressed...at least not by peak oil. By human attempts to deny the obvious...well maybe. But this is macro analysis....not day to day life.

Do expect macro and day to day to start to gradually align though....you see it more and more.

Some want to live 2000...50...or approx 1.5 years in the past...and resist change....while others believe and can muster the "facts"...to prove that it is already too late to make any changes that will make a difference....the train wreck is directly ahead Choose your point of view.

None of the big picture issues have gone away...and they won't be going away. The large debts and economic issues have been covered over...but they haven't really gone away....same with the other issues. But...maybe if you close your eyes...and wish real hard?

You can choose to believe anything you want and be real happy (maybe) right up until the crap hits the fan...or you can try to deal with the issues...there being a few things any individual can do. Most of us are extremely dependent on a fragile lifeline of power....food...and water...etc...and a degree of social order....and many pretend that it isn't so.
Give a boy a gun-give a biatch a cell phone-and pretty soon you almost got yourself a police state.

Orwell said: War is peace! Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength...

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Re: Peak oil happened in 2008...and YOU missed it!

Post by Petros »

have any of you read about the "bioshere" of deep subsurface bacteria that produces crude oil? Came out of the "abiotic" theory of oil production, though that has not proven to be consistent with available science. How do you explain old wells they thought were pumped out, after many decades becoming viable again?

It might be true that we consume more than is produced, but the easy solution to that is to up the production capacity. I think you are fooling yourself if you think that we have an accurate handle on what is the maximum production capacity of the earth.

Also, climate change is "normal". The earth has NEVER had a stable climate, it has been both warmer and colder than today in the past. the question is how much human activity affects it, and if it is practical to expect to be able to affect it in a beneficial way, and no one has proven that (it is just taken on faith that it can, like a religion).

I am all for economy, less pollution we would all be better off. But there is not reason to artificially cause shortages, and rip us off with high taxes. If the government gets it hands on our money, they will just waste almost all of it anyway. So I am always an advocate of lower taxes, it will lower waste and government caused pollution.
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Re: Peak oil happened in 2008...and YOU missed it!

Post by So_Powerful »

It is quite easy to explain why old wells could possibly become viable again. Oil migrates or flows through the subsurface just like water does. As for deep subsurface bacteria creating crude oil. I think that is a bunch of garbage. Firstly in order to actually created crude oil you need carbon, hydrogen and oxygen. There is little to no gaseos phase oxygen in the deep subsurface what is needed by bacteria to survive. Also the temperature in the deep subsurface is such that it creates an environment unsuitable for bacteria to survive in.

Petros you are right about our knowledge of how much oil is out there. It is very difficult to quanify anything that is in the subsurface. Though in terms of oil, humans know a heck of a lot more about the abundance of this resource then say groundwater. There is a ton of research done trying to figure out how much oil is out there. It believe that most estimates are very optimistic also.

As for climate change, yes it is a dynamic system that is always changing but anthropogenic impacts have definately altered the climate. Historical climates can be determined using ice cores and lake sediments and since the industrial revolution various climatic indicators have changed drastically. I'm not an atmospheric science but I do know that increases in heat in the atmosphere also causes increase in energy. The atmosphere releases this energy via storms (ie tornadoes, hurricanes etc.). Also I'm not sure Petros what you mean by the earth has never had a stable climate. Stable for what life? In that case the earth has had a stable enough climate for the past ~3.6 billion years to support and sustain life. I don't understand what you mean by stable climate.
takza
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Re: Peak oil happened in 2008...and YOU missed it!

Post by takza »

Bottom line it seems some want things to go on as they have in the last 30 yrs or so...continual growth driven by exploitation of the worlds labor and resources...where there will be a last big drive to GET OURS before THEY do. Drill baby drill? Send the jobs to China?

Problem with the SOS is that that an increasing world population and their increasing desire for more "stuff" is running headlong into a developing shortage of resources...including energy...water...where food production and transportation depends on energy and water.

Some believe that cheap energy has allowed continual economic growth which is in turn dependent on increasing credit. The days of cheap energy are pretty much over....and so are the days of cheap credit?

So right at this point in time...our great leaders have gotten the country up to it's eyeballs in debt...right at the point that energy costs will be rising and continual growth based on credit will be less viable...not to mention the already high debt load which still needs to be worked through.

And there will be increasing costs resulting from global warming and newer refugee populations.

So our great leaders have saved the country and the world from another depression...maybe...by transferring debt to the citizens. That's great...but it didn't go away. Neither has the cost of our policing of the world where around 53% of our taxes go to military spending....much in support of corporate interests?

The real issue isn't big government...it's govt controlled by special interests where those regulated...regulate themselves...if at all. You see it in every sector...food...ag...health care...drugs...energy...financial...military...on and on.

The only reason I'd be depressed would be to live in a world where too many people have their heads up their butts...and not only don't know if and how they've been screwed, but are ready to bend over for more? :?
Give a boy a gun-give a biatch a cell phone-and pretty soon you almost got yourself a police state.

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Re: Peak oil happened in 2008...and YOU missed it!

Post by Petros »

So_Powerful wrote: Petros you are right about our knowledge of how much oil is out there. It is very difficult to quanify anything that is in the subsurface.....
okay, stop right there. That is all that matters, NO ONE knows. NO matter how scientific any analysis or estimates may appear, it is nothing more than soothsaying or numerology. It is all bunk. Any estimate is only as good as your assumptions, and there is very little that we can assume is correct. It is all sophistry, soothsaying and numerology. Historically all of the past estimates were off by whole orders of magnitude (way underestimating the reserves). So it might be possible they got it right this time, but there is no reason to think current estimates are any better than past ones.

As for human impact to long term climate change, we are also equally ignorant. There has never been any correlation shown between CO2 and global temperatures, let alone any contribution from anthropogenic CO2. For example look at the graphs below and tell me where the LONG TERM correlation is? During the last two ice ages atmospheric CO2 was 17 times higher than it is today! Everyone who has studies these relationships concludes there is just NO CORRELATION between CO2 and global temp. Oh, and show me where you find any time period where the climate is stable too.

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Long Term History of Atmospheric CO2

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Long Term Temperature changes, notice we are cooler now than in the past.
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