Is my starter cooked?

[mikey]

Hi guys.....
I'm pretty green about these things, so please bear with me. This morning I started the car and let it warm up for about ten minutes while chipping ice off of it. When I got behind the wheel I noticed that the windshield wipers ran very slowly, and the fan didn't run much at all. Then I saw wisps of smoke from under the hood.

I shut the car off and looked at the engine, and the starter was smoking hot. I let it cool off, but now there's only a rapid clicking when I turn the key. I think that the motor was running the whole time. Is the motor toast, along with the solenoid?

[Petros]

it sure sounds like that is exactly what happened. IF the starter does not work now, whether it was running or not, than it likely needs to be replaced.

First however I would check all the connections, and the battery terminals, for good contact, including all the ground connections. When it clicks like that it could also be just a bad contact.

If that does not work, than perhaps an internal contact got fried. These starters can be taken apart and rebuilt, even if you can not find internal replacement the parts, cleaning the internal contacts might help. Cheaper than replacing it.

Good luck.

[splatterdog]

You can't put the smoke back in it I'm afraid.

The wife did this a couple of winters ago because my 84's key cylinder got sticky in sub zero temps. It didn't return to run after cranking. Luckily she made no stops after work and made it home.

Your starter windings are most likely fried so if you are good at rewinding armatures you might save it. I think I would shop for a replacement starter instead. And check the ignition cylinder for sticking.

Clicking solenoid usually does mean battery or connection. But if the starter was driven by the engine that long, it is most likely toast.

[4wdchico]

I usually fix starters and alternators myself. I almost never turn in an original core. But in this case I would not even bother opening it up.

[mikey]

Thanks, all......

I went home from work during my lunch hour and managed to get the old one out fairly quickly, but I had to slide under the car in the mud to get at that lower bolt. I found out that it's the reduction style one, and the auto parts store will have a rebuilt one for me tomorrow ($59.95).

The comment about the ignition switch interests me, because it was cold, but not subzero, but the starter ran after releasing the key once before, and that time it was subzero......the switch is worn and you can remove the key at any position, for instance. How likely is it to do this again before I get around to replacing it? The cold season is about over now in Santa Fe. Is there any way to know is it is happening again? I suppose that I could make sure to try the wipers, or the heater fan, as a test!

[4wdchico]

Thanks, all......

I went home from work during my lunch hour and managed to get the old one out fairly quickly, but I had to slide under the car in the mud to get at that lower bolt. I found out that it's the reduction style one, and the auto parts store will have a rebuilt one for me tomorrow ($59.95).

The comment about the ignition switch interests me, because it was cold, but not subzero, but the starter ran after releasing the key once before, and that time it was subzero......the switch is worn and you can remove the key at any position, for instance. How likely is it to do this again before I get around to replacing it? The cold season is about over now in Santa Fe. Is there any way to know is it is happening again? I suppose that I could make sure to try the wipers, or the heater fan, as a test!

I you really want to get away from a sticking starter switch just install a momentary on starter button and don't bother with the ignition switch issue.

[hberdan]

The cold season is about over now in Santa Fe. Is there any way to know is it is happening again? I suppose that I could make sure to try the wipers, or the heater fan, as a test!

If your ignition switch is sticking, use some electrical grade silicone spray on it, that should free it up--worked for me.

[Petros]

I would think some tuner cleaner or electrical type lube should cure it. And than try and make it a habit to return the key to the "run" position after it starts, once it is an automatic habit it servers as a fail safe.

Also, just to make sure, clean all the electrical contacts on the ground and battery, etc. while you are at it.

BTW, though that is a good price for a starter, they are usually pretty durable so if you have access to a used one from a wrecking yard it is usually a safe bet and a bit cheaper.

Good luck.

[takza]

I soak my ignit switch with ATF about every 6 months....seems to cure most issues. I put a rag on the floor to catch excess oil.

[mikey]

What Now?

More advice needed.....I put the new starter in and....nothing. I've cleaned the connections at the battery and the two to the starter itself. When I turn the key I hear a click in the side panel near the clutch pedal, which I have found out is the starter relay. Not a peep from the starter itself, though. I tried using a different battery too.

Is there a quick way to make sure that the new starter is not defective?

I'm assuming that the problem is not in the ignition switch, since I hear that click. Help, please!

[4wdchico]

What Now?

More advice needed.....I put the new starter in and....nothing. I've cleaned the connections at the battery and the two to the starter itself. When I turn the key I hear a click in the side panel near the clutch pedal, which I have found out is the starter relay. Not a peep from the starter itself, though. I tried using a different battery too.

Is there a quick way to make sure that the new starter is not defective?

I'm assuming that the problem is not in the ignition switch, since I hear that click. Help, please!

There are two wires going to the starter, disconnect the smaller of the two and jump from the positive terminal on the battery right to the point where small wire was attached to the starter. At that point, if you have a good battery, and good connections to both ground (-)and the big terminal of the starter (+), a good starter should crank the engine. Might be a good idea to make sure the trans is in neutral.

Safety glasses would be nice also.

[mikey]

Success!

Thanks, 4wdchico...

I cleaned up a few more ground connections. The possible culprit was the one on the engine near the oil filter.

In the morning I tried jumping power to the smaller contact on the starter, and the solenoid clicked, but the engine didn't turn over. Then I jumped power from another battery, and the engine turned. Then I tried the ignition switch (which I had cleaned and lubed), and voila! So I think it was a combination of bad electrical contacts and a low battery.

Thanks to all!

[Petros]

Good it is working again. But do you think perhaps the bad contacts prevented the starter from working? Or was the old starter actually damaged?

[takza]

The "bendix" part of the starter is I think...purely mechanical...and if it fails to disengage...even though the solenoid works...the starter stays engaged?

[mikey]

I guess I'll never know for sure that the old one was fried, since I turned it in to buy the new starter, and never tested it. But if you had smelled the engine compartment after the "meltdown", you might be more sure the starter was damaged. The burnt wiring/plastic? smell hung around for two days.

When a motor is driven by an engine at, say, 2000 rpm for several minutes is it actually producing electricity, or drawing it from the battery at a greater rate than during cranking? I think that the connections were part of it, but that the battery was drained too. Remember that the accessories in the car hardly worked during the incident. It's voodoo to me, and I'd like to hear from someone who knows more about "juice" than me!