Exhaust Mods

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:38 pm

Okay. Odd as it sounds... Anyone know where I can find headers or plans for headers for the 3A-C? I want to release some of the pressure on the exhaust system. Maybe open up some lower end, as the most power is kind of high up. Also, whats a good diameter exhaust system to look for?

icE · Post by **icE** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 7:45 am

Hmm, searched and couldn't find headers for the 3-AC, but i found them for the paseo, and other vehicles.

The exhaust question comes up with just about every car. There has been lots of discussion of this topic in the civic forums

If you have a turbo application, 2.5 inch to 3 inch exhaust would perform well. For N/A applications (which is for us since no turbo kit) 2.25 - 2.5 would suffice. Even 2 inches would give some better flow

On my civic, the muffler had holes in it (friend made me do it...lol), so we went to midas and got a new exhaust put on. It's was almost to factory specs, except the civic came with 2 lil pipes at the end of the muffler n i only wanted 1. Ended up saving 100 bucks that way. Could you believe 2 pieces of pipe would've costed 100 dollars? Insane.

Anywho, I say go with at least 2 inch, custom mandrel bent exhaust. From what I've heard muffler shops do custom exhaust for cheap, or almost as much as if you were to replace it to factory specs. Common price to look for would be in the $200 range. If it's more than that, go somewhere else. And if you see any cat-back systems on the internet (for just about any car), don't buy them. They usually cost $500 or more, and all it is is custom exhaust with a performance muffler. Sure the muffler would cost a bit more to get a better one, but the piping is not worth $400 or so dollars, so always go custom and you'll be happier and save money ^_^

If you want to open it up, i'd say exhaust headers, high-flow cat, and performance muffler, but not too sure on how successful you'd be on finding those for the tercel. If there's no high-flow cat for the tercel (and if there's no universal one either) just run straight pipe all the way back to the muffler. We oughta get header specifications (the factory specs) and see if you can get it custom fabricated to open up some more and give more performance. It'd be expensive to get one, but if there's a demand and we do a group buy (10 people or so) it'd be cheaper...cheaper by the dozen...lol never saw that movie :ph34r: B)

What other power mods did you have in mind for the tercel?

takza · Post by **takza** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 8:14 am

Read this first?

<a href='http://tercel4wd.com/invision/index.php?act=ST&f=7&t=88' target='_blank'>http://tercel4wd.com/invision/index.php ... =7&t=88</a>

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:16 am

Bud's can probably make me an exhaust system. Dunno about headers. I'll have to talk to Polaris.... If I can get some headers made, maybe I can convince them to make 10 or so. I'll look into it. BTW, silence and power don't go together. Backpressure does most of the muffling work, but bp kills hp.

Darren · Post by **Darren** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 1:39 pm

You have got to be kidding me.... Do you seriously think you can do better than the Japanese who designed your car?

Also, you are TOTALLY, wrong about silence and power don't go together... There are plenty of cars out there that produce tons of power, and are damn near silent.
If you want to improve on the tercels horsepower, here is the best thing you van do:

Drive the car into your driveway, pop open the hood, remove the radiator cap. Back the car out, drive in a new car, and replace the radiator cap.

There is a reason why all these cars are still running, and the very existence of this forum is a direct result.... The engineers did a fantastic job on this car.

20vtercel · Post by **20vtercel** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:33 pm

Darren wrote: You have got to be kidding me.... Do you seriously think you can do better than the Japanese who designed your car?

Also, you are TOTALLY, wrong about silence and power don't go together... There are plenty of cars out there that produce tons of power, and are damn near silent.
If you want to improve on the tercels horsepower, here is the best thing you van do:

Drive the car into your driveway, pop open the hood, remove the radiator cap. Back the car out, drive in a new car, and replace the radiator cap.

There is a reason why all these cars are still running, and the very existence of this forum is a direct result.... The engineers did a fantastic job on this car.

you'd better hope you're tall cuz comments like that will get you cut off at the knees!!!

If this is the case, as you say, Why is it that the toyota supra's don't come with 1100hp that they are capable of???

It's because they are made with a balance in mind. Not everyone whats the power of a drag car nor the low-end torque of a hill climber such as the tercels.

Next...due to mass production, there are some corners that are always cut. For example, the ehaust manifolds...cast iron, heavy, and boy do they hold heat. Now, that is great for the average joe, and even in some cases, the hill climber. Now for a performance enthusiast, cast iron manifolds are full of restrictions and blemishes!!!

As with heads, there wouldn't be a "port and polish" technique to wake up the ports on the heads if there wasn't room for improvement.

These are not one-off cars. Nor are they hand made. There is a compromise in power for fuel economy. Just as with your knowledge base, there is room for improvement!!!

GTSSportCoupe · Post by **GTSSportCoupe** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 9:19 pm

I had 1.75" custom exhaust piping installed from the manifold back with a resonator in place of the cat, and a 'turbo' style muffler (whatever that means). There was a definite feelable increase in power through the entire rpm range of the car. This suprised me; I thought it would only improve the top end power. This was for a stock but well maintained/tuned 3AC.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:34 pm

I guess every forum needs a fool. Now. Listen very closely, I'm only going to say this once.
SILENCE AND OPTIMUM POWER FOR THE SYSTEM DO NOT GO TOGETHER.
Do you think I am not aware of the fact that there are silent power-monsters out there? What kind of utter ignorant fool do you take me for? Dude... My folks own a 02 Ford Excursion (do not bash this as I doubt you've ever even looked under the hood of one of these, let alone understand the basic dynamics of a diesel engine) and when it was stock, it whispered oh-so-silently into the wind. It was barely audible from the other side of a 25 year old garage door. Want to know how much power it produced? 510 ft/lb of torque and 225 horses. A little under manufacturer quoted power. This was with the stock 3 inch exhaust w/ muffler. We hauled it on down to our local custom exhaust shop, had a 4inch straight-pipe system put on. It now sounds like a 747 is taking off in the driveway while it warms up. Want to know something? We experienced a gain of 15 horses and 32 ft/lb of torque! GASP! Could this mean that inctreasing the noise level by decresing backpressure increased power? Or am I just an under-educated, misinformed nincompoop? <_<
A muffler muffles by putting in things called baffles, or creating a semi-vacuum effect. These baffles create a certain amount of backpressure, which creates blissfull silence. The vacuum effect is hard to understand (how its created and functions that is) but in theory it creates a decrease in backpressure that WOULD increase sound level, but for the vacuum front. A less-dense object/substance tranfers sound less efficiently. It is an interesting concept, and is pioneered by the Aerotubine company. http://www.aero-turbine.com
So in that sense, yeah, silence does go with power, but its via a vacuum effect which is not by any means natural in a standard exhaust system, to this effect.

What the heck kind of person are you? Are you suggesting that the Japanese are some sort of omni-potent race? They ARE cool, do produce most of the things I live for, and are very intelligent, but what makes you think that somehow their work is so good, it cannot be improved upon? Like takza said, by putting on different exhaust, he felt a pretty big difference.
Now how on Earth does getting a new car increase the Tercel's power?
What would you say if I put on a turbo charger and (GASP!) Got more power out of my 3A-C? What would you say if I put in a stereo that sounded better, could play CD's, pick up more radio stations, and play satellite radio? What about if I put on wheels/tires that incresed my fuel economy? What if I put on a swaybar that performed better than stock? What about a better paintjob, stronger body panels, better lighting, more efficient fuel delivery, better gearing, stronger bearings, a more potent oil pump, a radiator that weighed less but transferred heat better, an A/C that cooled better at less loss to the fuel economy, a carburator that pushed more power and better fuel economy thru the engine, stronger axles, more visible running and safety lights, power windows, power locks, more accurate guages, a more strategically placed intake.... Do you maybe get the picture?

Again, I kind of was a little peeved, so don't take too much offense to what I said, and I apologize for any distraught this caused you.

GTSSportCoupe · Post by **GTSSportCoupe** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:07 am

Want to know what optimum exhaust systems sound like? Go to a F1 race and listen closely

.

Tercel's aren't F1 cars though... :rolleyes:

icE · Post by **icE** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:57 am

My brother loves F1 races, those cars are ridiculously fast

But, Darren? You've been on the forum for not even a week, made only 2 posts, and you've already gotten people upset. If you're opinion differs, that's fine, but don't make everyone feel like a moron. If you have something to say, say it nicely. This is your only and final warning.

3A-C Power · Post by **3A-C Power** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 3:23 pm

All Tercel owners are nice. They have to be, to drive such slow cars. I'm one of the founding members of this board along with Ice, GTS, Takza and a few others, and if anyone is being a dick on here, I don't care how much they know, I want them deleted. I would rather have a board with nice humble people who know a bit less but help each other out and figure things out that way.

icE · Post by **icE** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 3:29 pm

^ exactly

^

And tercel's aren't slow, they jus take their time when they're in 4-wheel drive lol

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 4:38 pm

My dad got his first one up to 115 mph!

Guest_darren · Post by **Guest_darren** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 7:00 pm

Supra's don't come with the 1100HP that they are capable of for only one reason. It's because Toyota would not be making anywhere near as much money compared to what they are making right now on the current Supra design

So, you've changed it from "silence and power do not go together" to "silence and optimum power do not go together". Optimum power? That's not even objectively quantifiable. Maximum power would have been a much better choice. I have looked under the hoods of one of those Ford Excursions. It's a car engine, big deal. I have seen diesel engines for cargo ships larger than your entire Ford. I've tried to "palm" big diesel engine pistons from tractors. I've also worked with silent running diesel generators found in big data centers. What do you know about my understanding of anything, or even more importantly, who cares? Congratulations to your folks, more noise pollution. Those gains are not even the slightest bit impressive, considering it's a maximum output power figure.
"... amount of backpressure, which creates blissfull silence" You tried to relate the pressure of a gas, to noise. Those are two totally different things. Last time I checked, full scuba tanks at 2500psi make no noise. There is nothing hard to understand about muffler design. It's gas dynamics, an old topic. We know an incredible amount about it, and that is the reason why Ford Excursions can
be made whisper quiet. If you really must know what kind of person I am, I am what's known as a Fallopian Commando. I never said anything even remotely close to suggest that the "Japanese are some sort of omni-potent race". The word Japanese, in this context, means one who is from Japan. If you want to be racist, by suggesting that they are omnipotent, and classify the Japanese as being a seperate race, go ahead (you wrote the omnipotent thing, not I). Race and nationality are two VERY different things. getting a new car doesn't increase the Tercel's power, that's the point. If you do all that stuff you mention about increasing the Tercel's performance, I can tell you exactly what I will say. "Congratulations, you've just spent enough time and money on a $1000 car to make it worth $1000". Get a grip. I know adding all sorts of toys to the car is fun, ever ride a Harley? It will make you feel like you have testicles 200 miles wide.

Actually, if you want to witness optimum exhaust power, go see a rocket launch from places closer to where they let the public view. When I watched a Titan 34D fly up and overhead, the air itself was vibrating so violently, it was pushing me backwards. But, I've seen indy cars too, very nice. Safer than watching a rocket launch too.

I've been on this forum for much longer than 1 week. I've only recently bothered to sign up. If people are getting upset by simply reading text across the internet, then gee, I guess surrender. Learn to agree to disagree. Typrus said, "or am I just an under-educated, misinformed nincompoop", and also accused me of never having looked at some random engine. Yeah, very nice. Deleting a user because they don't get along with others, definitley qualifies as being a dick. Besides, I have logs, I have screen shots. Anyone who was dedicated enough to poop on this great forum's party would simply come back with a different
username, from different IP addresses.

Tercels are not slow, you can easily achieve 0-60MPH in about 2.5 seconds. Let the car drive right off a cliff, but of course the car (in running condition) can only do this once. Multiple dives don't count.

115MPH, yep, that 3A engine is really spinning. Takes some time to get up to that speed too.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 2:52 am

Car engine? Since when do they put 7.3 liter diesel V-8's in cars?
Do you think I don't realize there are diesel engines bigger than my house, let alone my parents Excursion? Do you ever see one of those in a road-going vehicle? No.
Do you not know what optimum means? It means- The point at which the condition, degree, or amount of something is the most favorable.
Am I somehow being perceived as saying that a higher-flowing exhaust system will suddenly make your engine so powerfull it will blow itself up, because it is at its absolute peak? No, I didn't hope to give that impression.
Why do you not agree to disagree and leave it at that?

How about this. We stop arguing about it, start off on a different foot, and don't throw shit at each other, whether it be true or not.

I'd also ask this- do not try to say I know nothing just because I don't know about Untersea Boot (U-Boat) diesel engines. Honestly, how much do you expect one to know in only 16 years?

Oh yeah, 1 more note. Please don't try to say the Tercels are so well engineered just to come back with saying that they are worth nothing without upgrades. It doesn't make you look good.