SPRINGS & SHOCKS

[kneedragger]

I WANT TO LOWER MY 85 4WD WAGON. I WANT TO USE GAS ADJUSTABLE STRUTS AND SHOCKS. IS ANYONE MAKING SPRINGS ETC? I'D LIKE TO FIND URETHANE SUSPENSION BUSHINGS, URETHANE CV BOOTS,RACK BOOTS,STIFFER SWAY BARS. IS THERE ANY AFTERMARKET STUFF OUT THERE FOR MY WAGON? A LOT OF PARTS FROM OTHER TOYOTA CARS WILL FIT THE TERCEL, I JUST DON'T KNOW WHICH PARTS. CAN SOMEONE LEAD ME TO A SOURCE? I'VE GOT AN 88 MR2 SC AND I SEE SOME SUSPENSION PARTS THAT LOOK SIMILAR. WHAT BREAKS ON THE 4WD TRANS WHEN YOU BUMP THE POWER OVER 120HP?
ARE THERE ANY AFTER MARKET BODY PARTS FOR THE TERCEL LIKE FRONT SPOILER, ROCKERS ETC?
THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR ANY ANSWERS.

[Petros]

Welcome to the list,

Almost nobody makes any performance parts for this model of Tercel, and the few that did discontinued them long ago for such an old model. Toyota made a conscious decision that they did not want to market the Tercel as a performance car, they never had a racing program for them (as they did with their other models), so there is not much in the way of performance parts was ever available for the Tercel. I am not aware of any custom body parts, most have made spoilers and wings from other cars work (go to a wrecking yard with a tape measure and poke around).

Not all is lost however, the rear axle is from the older corolla and many of the urethane bushings and rear sway bars for the similar year RWD corolla with fit. I am not aware of any front anti-sway bars, but it understeers so badly that a stiffer rear is the first order of business. KYB makes some decent gas filled struts and shocks, and there are rear air adjustable shock for it (Gabrial I think, the rear shocks fit a domestic car so there is something you can get for the rear). If you just cut a coil off the stock springs it will both lower and stiffen the springs, and there are a number of threads on this list of other springs from other cars that can be made to work. There are likely a number of generic urethane bushings that can be made to work on the front too, just take them out and go to a place that sells urethane bushings.

Do a search for struts and springs in the archives and see what you can find.

Why do you want to lower a 4wd car? there is little enough clearance as it is. And go read some of the threads on engine upgrades and swaps, there is a lot you can do along those lines (since it is so underpowered as it is).

[kneedragger]

THANKS FOR THE INFO. I'M NOT GOING OFF ROAD OR TO THE MOUNTAINS IN WINTER SO,I HAVE SOME 15 IN. WHEELS I HAD ON MY MR2. THE WAGON NEEDS TO COME DOWN A FEW INCHES FOR IT TO LOOK THE WAY I WANT IT. I WAS THINKING I COULD TOW MY CROTCH ROCKET TO THE RACE TRACK WITH IT. NOT SURE IT HAS THE POWER. DON'T WANT THE CENTER OF GRAVITY UP WHERE IT IS NOW. I NEED STABILITY.
I'M SURE I CAN FIND THE BUSHINGS AND BOOTS. I'D LIKE TO LOSE THE BIG BUMPERS.
THE PROBLEM WITH SHOCKS & STRUTS IS THAT STOCK LENGTH WON'T ALLOW THE PISTON TO OPERATE IN THE CORRECT RANGE AND MAY BOTTOM OUT. CAN'T CUT THE SHAFT ON SOME OR MOST ADJUSTABLES. I'LL HAVE TO TALK TO A TUNER AND FIND SOMETHING DESIGNED FOR SOME OTHER CAR THAT WILL WORK FOR ME. I HAD SIX OPEL GT CARS AT ONE TIME. IT TOOK SOME EFFORT BUT I WAS ABLE TO FIND LOTS OF STUFF FOR THEM THAT WAS MADE FOR OTHER CARS.(JAG DIFF FOR INDEPENDENT REAR SUSP & DISC BRK)
I THOUGHT I MIGHT BE ABLE TO FIND SOMEONE ON THIS SITE WHO HAD ALREADY DONE SOME OF THIS STUFF. I'LL POST ON ANOTHER FORUM. THANKS.

[Petros]

I have done some of this, and I am in the process of doing it now over the next few years. I did some messing around in a wrecking yard and found the '88-92 corolla struts can be made to fit if you swap out the top spring seat. If I recall it was about an inch shorter too. The Corolla All-trac strut is even larger dia. (2" vs. 1.5" of normal corolla and Tercel strut). There is a thread on this. I would like to stiffen the ride some, but not lower it any because sometimes we get big snow here.

You will need better brakes if you are going to tow with the Tercel, the stock brakes are too flimsy for long steep hills, let alone towing. But fortunately there are a number of much larger brake combinations that are not too much trouble to adapt to the Tercel. Corolla or MR2 brakes can be made to fit with spacers. Do a thread search and you will find a lot of info. I am putting an MR2 master (with booster) into mine, and 25 mm front vented disks. Eventually I am going to find a way to put the MR2 rear disk on my Tercel as well. But if you want the hot set up get a rear axle from a RWD Corolla GTS, with LSD and rear disk brakes. It will bolt up but you will have to have a driveline shop change the rear drive shaft flange since the GTS diff has a slightly larger in dia. flange.

I think the real hot set up would be to put the IRS suspension from an early Celica GTS, about the same width, rear disks and LSD available. It will take a bit of welding for the mounts of the IRS mount points, but it does not look too bad a fit, the underbody is almost identical (I spent some time taking measurements of the Terce4wd and early Celica GTS).

The center of gravity issue is a problem, the engine is much higher on this car than other models because it sits on top of the front diff. So lowering the CG would help, but there is only so far you can go. Of course with the 4wd drive train it already has a fair amount of weight down low.

I agree about the bumpers, I hate the North American bumpers, I wish there was an inexpensive way to get JDM or Euro bumpers here. I thought about taking them off, glueing foam in the bumper places and carving out a slimmer and nicer "bumper", and covering it with fiberglass. It will improve the looks and save weight, perhaps improve the economy a bit too by reducing drag. NOt sure if it is worth the effort.

There are number of tweaks you can do to improve the power output, but that obsolete 8-valve head design and the old carb will limit how far you can go. Max 1mm overbore, flat top pistons, a reground performance cam, and a weber carb, 2 inch exahust system are about it, but it is enough. The next step is to put a 4age in it (the old rwd corolla gts version is the easiest to make fit). Even the more common 4afe (from '88-92 corolla) will have much more power, higher torque, and better economy (and be a better towing engine). There are threads on swapping both of these engines into the Tercel.

Good luck. Share with us what else you might find out, and post pictures of your progress.

[kneedragger]

PETROS, THANKS FOR ALL THE INFO! I KNOW A GUY DOWN THE STREET, HAS A NA MR2 JUST SITTING IN HIS DRIVE WAY. I SHOULD GET IT FOR PARTS. BY THE WAY, GET YOUR MR2 PARTS FROM AN SC IF YOU CAN, 1988-89, MORE BEEF.
I STILL WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT BREAKS IN THE 4WD TRANS AND WHAT IT TAKES TO BREAK IT.
JUST A THOUGHT, I WONDER IF THE MR2 HUB ASSY WILL BOLT IN. HAVE YOU TAKEN A LOOK AT THAT? THE WHOLE STRUT ASSY. IF YOU CAN DO IT, YOU'LL HAVE THE BRAKES YOU WANT AND YOU CAN USE ADJUSTABLE GAS CARTRIGES AND AFTER MARKET SPRINGS TO MAKE THE FRONT AS STIFF AS YOU LIKE. THERE ARE AFTER MARKET BRAKE KITS FOR THE MR2 THAT ALLOW YOU TO USE CALIPERS LIKE WILWOOD ETC. WITH BIGGER ROTORS ANY WAY YOU WANT THEM. SO, IF MR2 PARTS FIT, "IT COULD HAPPEN". YOU MIGHT WANT TO CHECK OUT THE MR2 WEB SITE TO SEE WHAT'S AVAILABLE. I THINK IT IS STILL MR2.COM. I HAVEN'T BEEN ON IT FOR A FEW YEARS. I'M OUT OF TIME. THANKS AGAIN!

[ARCHINSTL]

Click the "Caps Lock" key.
Tom M.

[Petros]

The trannys do not so much break as much as wear out. Most will last 240-300k miles, even longer with regular lube changes (which hardly anyone ever does, including me!). That is not a bad life for the trans, but unlike the engine, it is diffcult and costly to get new parts for it, and all of the trannys you can find in wrecking yards will have the same amount of miles on them. The last year they made them was in 1987, some have rebuilth them and heat treated the hard parts, and added synthetic lube to make them last longer.

I have not tried an MR2 strut swap, but the thought occurred to me, the RWD MR2 rear struct MAY be able to fit on the front of the Tercel. I have a wrecked '87 MR2 parts car, and an '86 fixer (project) car. Once I have my tercel appart for the engine swap and brake upgrade I may mess around with the extra MR2 hubs on the Tercel (and see what might work). I do not see the point in putting the MR2 front hub in a Tercel unless you want to make the Tercel RWD only (I like my 4wd, I use it daily where I live, and I would NEVER eliminate it, the best feature of this great little cars!). There would be NO easy way to make the rear suspension and struts from the MR2 to fit in the Tercel rear (but the idea had occured to me, since I have the parts). That would mean a lot of cutting and welding on the Tercel, and some custom parts fab too. The older Celica GTS IRS rear would be a much easier adaptation.

BTW, the MR2 calipers would bolt right on to the front Tercel struts, so the brakes are not a reason to swap out front struts. the issue would be the rotors, the off-set is different, so you either needs rotor spacers, or different rotors. The 1992 and later Tercel front rotors (vented) have the right off-set and correct thickness (but they are the same dia, so it will not change the braking ratio). I will be using the MR2 caliper with the later Tercel rotors on my stock Tercel hubs when I swap the brakes over. I did a test fit and it all bolts up (I think the L and R calipers have to be swapped, no problem).

There is lots of good stuff from the MR2 that can be made to work in the Tercel, including the 16-valve 4AGE engine. I also want to find an Early MR2 instrument cluster (full gauge set) to adapt to my Tercel, I already have the great MR2 seats and wheels on my Tercel as well. I have them pics of them posted somewhere on this forum.

There is almost no end to the amount of "improvements" you can do to the Tercel. The base car was their entry level economy model. the 4wd SR5 model was better, but it is still underpowered with an obsolete engine, under-braked, and I think has too soft a ride for a 4wd. Swap the engine to a more modern EFI design, up grade the brakes and improve the suspension, and it will be perfect.

[fawmaine]

I bought my 88 in 2006 from the original owner. In looking over the service records that seem to be complete from day one I do not see any indication that the tranny was ever lubed. The car has always been highway driven and has 180k. I have not
had any problems with shifting. I am going to talk with the former owner and see what she knows. Or her husband. What I
would like to know from you is this. If the tranny has not been drained and lubed fresh is there any chance that doing the job
might open the proverbial "can of worms" with some problems that necessitate more work I really can't afford. Rebuilding
the tranny would be more of a expense than those incurred from service. What are your thoughts? Thanks.
Ned Whiting

[splatterdog]

fawmaine- I like the 80's Valvoline slogan- "change your oil, not your engine"

This applies to just about everything that requires oil.

Sometimes automatics can freak out with fresh fluid. Haven't seen it myself, but there is a lot that can go wrong in an auto.

My 84 came with shiny gray gravy for gear oil at 162k. I don't think it would have lasted almost another decade now without a thorough flushing and then changing to synthetic. Trans still works like when I got it and might hit 250k by the end of this year.

Better late than never!

[Petros]

If your tranny is shot, changing the oil or not changing the oil will not save it. The stories of trouble are from auto trans, and that I think if from old worn trannys anyway. change the trans oil.

[skyerunner]

Not to get too OT (from springs & shocks), but how do you go about changing transmission and rear diff oils? Also, what kind of synthetic oil do you recommend? Do I need a pump thing to get oil into the trans?
Thanks!

[danzo]

As long as we are off topic, myself and tons of tranny builders highly recommend Redline MTL (manual transmission lube) for any manual gearbox. It worked wonders with my old BMW gearbox that had almost 300k on it and was hard to shift. MTL completely cured it, now it works like new even with regular hard (autocross + hot climate) use. Redline kind of tough to find and pricey at about $10/quart, and keep in mind any synth fluid will tend to find leaks better than dino oils.

I'm in the process of slapping in a j-yard gearbox into my T4wd. Since I don't know it's history, I will fill it with regular dino oil, check for leaks (I am changing all seals/gaskets I can), and if it shifts hard/makes noise I will fill it with Redline. As for the pump - you can get around this but snaking a tube from above - either through the engine bay or shifter hole in the floor. But those pumps are pretty cheap and come in handy many times down the road. Good luck.

[takza]

Still using the same refill jug...I'd use this with a 12V air pump only. There will be some air leakage and combined with the small amount of air output...you avoid blowing the bottle up.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1719

[simon84]

Just to get back on topic: one way to lower a tercel wagon (in the front) would be to install struts from a non-wagon tercel of the same era. They are an inch shorter.
Should be easy to cut a coil out of the springs in the back.

[4wdchico]

As long as we are off topic, myself and tons of tranny builders highly recommend Redline MTL (manual transmission lube) for any manual gearbox. It worked wonders with my old BMW gearbox that had almost 300k on it and was hard to shift. MTL completely cured it, now it works like new even with regular hard (autocross + hot climate) use. Redline kind of tough to find and pricey at about $10/quart, and keep in mind any synth fluid will tend to find leaks better than dino oils.

I'm in the process of slapping in a j-yard gearbox into my T4wd. Since I don't know it's history, I will fill it with regular dino oil, check for leaks (I am changing all seals/gaskets I can), and if it shifts hard/makes noise I will fill it with Redline. As for the pump - you can get around this but snaking a tube from above - either through the engine bay or shifter hole in the floor. But those pumps are pretty cheap and come in handy many times down the road. Good luck.

Redline MTL & and MT 90 are great oils, I have used it in many manual trannys. But it is a GL4 oil and is not rated or capable of properly protecting a hypoid ring and pinion set such as shares the lube oil in the T4 tranny assembly. The correct Redline oil for the T4's manual trans is Redline 75-90 NS, it is GL5 & GL6 rated and is very capable of protecting a ring and pinion set. It has no friction modifiers which are intended for limited slip clutch packs. If a gear oil with friction modifiers is used in a manual trans the syncros cease to function, ugly grinding gear clash noises result when trying to shift. Redline further engineered the NS gear oil to have the optimum slickness for the syncros in a manual tranny, just like they did with the MTL & MT 90.

I run the 75-90 NS in my T4's tranny and it works great.

Redline's tranny oil page: http://www.redlineoil.com/Products.aspx?pcid=7