Transmission Replacement Issue

[Jonesy]

All-knowing Tercel aficionados,

I am in the process of replacing my transmission and am now running into some issues. I am reinstalling the entire assembly (transaxle + transmission) and am having a bugger of a time getting it to mate up with the clutch. Due to its weight, I have 2 jacks supporting the bulk of the load as I try to angle the mass up into position. After running into clearance issues I have zip tied the clutch lever into the depressed position, which has afforded me some extra wiggle room. I have removed the stiffening brackets that are attached to the side to give me room there as well. The issue at hand:It seems that I cannot align the input shaft to splined hole in the clutch to make the mate successful - the closest I can get it is ~0.25" off-center. No amount of shaking of the beast seems to help finish the job. Is there a trick to this? Should I just keep trying to muscle it into place?

Unfortunately, a search of the forums has turned up little insight as how to best accomplish my task. If anyone can provide any ideas on how to get this transmission assembly reinstalled I would appreciate it.

Thanks in advance!

[splatterdog]

If you can't see any interference outside, it needs more wiggling. Nothing less than perfect bullseye will do.

Make sure there are no burrs or imperfections on the tip of the input shaft too. The rubber strip at the bottom of the flywheel shield can get real hard and interfere with the top off the diff.

Luckily I haven't had to replace a trans yet. Because of it's odd shape and imbalance I would think two guys without jacks might be able to finesse it better. A third to screw in the first bolt,even better.

BTW, is there anything holding the engine up? If the engine is sagging at the rear that might make it real tight for the diff.

And DO NOT use a bolt to pull the engine/trans together. Or you will find out why it's called a bell housing. If you can get a bolt or two in far enough to not worry about breaking the tip off while wiggling, that can be used to help hold it close to line up. Longer bolts could be purchased too.

[garyfish]

I replaced the clutch in my '85 T4WD a couple months ago, and had the same problem as you when it came time to re-attach the transmission/transaxle assembly. I even had the use of a transmission jack, and still couldn't get the splines of the input shaft to fully insert through the clutch disc & seated in the pilot bearing so I could bolt it up.

After about 3 hours of me & a buddy wrangling with it, I ended up removing the 5 bolts & access plate covering the rear of the input shaft, then taking out the input shaft, bolting up the bell housing, and replacing the input shaft & cover. It was a surprisingly easy process, taking only about an hour. The whole procedure, with a series of excellent photos, is described in detail in the following thread:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=754

Good luck!

[Petros]

I have not had this problem except once, when I did not get the clutch alignment correct. You must use a clutch alignment tool to get the disk perfectly centered under the pressure plate. If this is off than the front of the input shaft will not go into the pilot bearing. Even using a tool, if you are not careful, will not center the disk. YOu can also "eye ball" the clutch centering by aligning your eye with the pilot bearing, and veryify the disk spline is centered on the pressure plate spring. This is less reliable, but a double check of being centered.

You might also consider unbolting the front mounts to allow the back of the engine to drop a little more to give you more wiggle room.

Good luck.

[Jonesy]

Thanks for the excellent responses all. In retrospect, I believe following garyfish's recommendation of removing the input shaft and then attaching the transmission to the bell housing would have been an excellent idea. I did view the takza/waynehoc post and it was definitely useful in removing the transmission. I ended up getting under the car Sunday morning with a friend and shook the hell out of the assembly until it mated up with the clutch.. Hopefully with minimal impact to the input shaft. Everything had been properly aligned beforehand with the clutch alignment tool, but I guess it just took some extra physical persuasion. I now have the drive shaft reinstalled, the exhaust hooked up with a new manifold gasket, brand spanking new CV halfshafts installed and am nearly ready to get this beast back on the road!


I say nearly because I ran into 2 issues: a busted lower ball joint (should be easily replaced) and an issue with the bolt attaching the lower control arm to the chassis. The bolt was unfortunately partially backed out during the removal of the CV halfshafts (don't ask.. not very happy with my buddy about this one...), and is now seized up. For those unfamiliar with this bolt, it runs from the wheel well through the L.C.A. and into the chassis, where the nut holding it can be accessed via a rubber plug on the bottom of the chassis. Upon review the bolt/nut look to be in pristine condition, but the nut has somehow stuck onto the end of the bolt.

The issue at hand is that the access hold is not big enough to stick a wrench into, and does not have a straight enough approach to the nut for a socket to fit over the nut. Does anyone have any experience with removing this bolt/nut, or advice on what to try next?

Thanks!

[splatterdog]

If the nut is turning inside you have big problems. It is a "caged" nut. What that is, is a square nut retained by sheet metal tabs that are bent over it.

There is no way to get at this without cutting out sheetmetal, then welding the old or a new nut in place, and welding your access hole back up. Maybe a hole in the floor would get you there but I don't know as I had easy access. I would probably cut out the flat area right behind the control arm that faces the tire if it comes to that.

I have been deep into this as I did a frame area replacement so I could squeeze a year out of my 86 parts car. I can't find them and only one pic(chopped down) still works on my old post here-viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2836 The new nut can easily be seen awaiting welding to the new sheet metal underneath it(driver's side with arm hanging). Access was easy as there was almost no metal on the bottom or sides directly behind the control arm to frame bolt. Had to rebox at least 6 inches of frame. Went through a lot of wire that day.

Hopefully you can get the bolt moving. Penetrant thru the little grommet hole towards the nut may help.

[keith]

When mating the transmission to the engine, you have to turn the engine over some. I usually just grab the harmonic balancer and twist but you can put a wrench on the crank bolt to turn it. You don't need to turn it far, just enough to get the splines to line up.

[Jonesy]

I have been deep into this as I did a frame area replacement so I could squeeze a year out of my 86 parts car. I can't find them and only one pic(chopped down) still works on my old post here-viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2836 The new nut can easily be seen awaiting welding to the new sheet metal underneath it(driver's side with arm hanging). Access was easy as there was almost no metal on the bottom or sides directly behind the control arm to frame bolt. Had to rebox at least 6 inches of frame. Went through a lot of wire that day.

Thanks for the post, splatterdog.. though it doesn't sound like good news. Your pictures do not seem to appear in the forums anymore - could you possibly reupload them and/or relink them here?

I was really hoping to avoid cutting the sheet metal for a couple reasons. I don't have access to a welder to patch the hole back up and I'm afraid of losing the nearly perfect seal that exists with the plug. I suppose I could take it to a mechanic and ask them to do it.. any guesses on what such a seemingly small job might cost?

[splatterdog]

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2836

Thanks for the post, splatterdog.. though it doesn't sound like good news. Your pictures do not seem to appear in the forums anymore - could you possibly reupload them and/or relink them here?

Just checked the link and the pic worked for me. I put up a before pic too. You can kinda see how little metal holds the nut. Just a couple tabs folded over the sides of a square nut. Amazingly that bolt came right out out. Didn't even twist up or shake the whole area apart with the impact. I think enough of the bolt tip was rusted away leaving nothing to bind it up. Probably didn't hurt that everything between the bolt head and tip still looked brand new!

Is this the left or right? I looked under mine and the right side has a larger plug much closer to the nut than drivers side. Possibly enough to get in there and take care of business without surgery. At this point you have nothing to lose by wrenching the bolt till something gives. Go tighter, maybe you'll push the rusty tip back thru. If the nut is spinning and the bolt wont come out, just hit the bolt with a hammer. This will drive the nut completely out of it's cage. When it's free and you have access, an open end wrench would likely fit the nut. I'm guessing 17mm. You could also move the bolt back out and cut the head off and drive it into the frame cavity. I used a "flange" nut to have extra material to weld too and to keep the heat away from the threads. If you aren't doing resto like I did, the extra layer of metal under the new nut wouldn't be necessary

If it's worst case and the nut is spinning you really are going to need a welder no matter what. If you buy get one that uses shileding gas. Welding supplier will usually rent as well.

Another option is to try and get by with the smallest well placed hole possible. Use a holesaw and just rubber plug it after, creating a wrench access hole for a regular nut. I would use a flanged nut for this method as well. They spread the load better.

When all is said and done, make sure to tighten that bolt with the car on the ground. Suspension bushings are always tightened at ride height

[Jonesy]

Hmm.. it must just be me then. The pics are still not working unfortunately.

The bolt in question is on the driver side, so you mentioned there is very little room to play with. It seems that in the process of trying to tighten/loosen the nut using the impact gun we actually ripped apart the bracing that was supposed to lock the nut down. I think we are going to have cut the bolt out and replace it with another. If this is the case, my new question is regarding bolt dimensions. Splatterdog, do you have the dimensions of that bolt (Shoulder/thread length, bolt head size, class [12.9?] etc)?

Or, do you or anyone possibly have a spare off a parts car hanging around?


Thanks for all the help and knowledge so far!

[Jonesy]

Or if anyone knows the bolt part number? I'm not 100% sure its listed in the manual, or if the part number will even help locate it. Would this same bolt be in similar Toyota cars? (Corolla, non-wagon Tercels, etc...) Will the year matter?

[ARCHINSTL]

Did you ever check out the Parts Manual sticky in the Parts Forum? XLNT info, as well as OE part numbers. Look at http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_U_198510 ... _4802.html
The bolt is shown at the left, but not the nut - I'd guess that a Toy dealer might have the spec on the bolt and, ergo, the nut could be determined as well.
Tom M.

[splatterdog]

The nut is part of the unibody. If you can find an affordable new one let us know!

Cant remember bolt size, I was able to reuse mine. It's either 10 or 12mm. Length could be estimated just by the width of the control arm bushing plus sheet metal thickness and bolt/nut engagement. Thread pitch is your choice at this point as the nut will need extraction/replacement. I believe oe pitch is 1.25(fine) Go with the highest number grade bolt available .

Possible, but unlikelely, Toyota might have a "kit" for this. I remember when the Tauruses were dropping subframes to the ground because bolt/washer rustout, sometimes the big subframe bolts would break or the nut would spin when loosened. Ford has a kit with required parts and detailed instructions.You had to holesaw a 2.5 or 3 inch hole in a precisely measured spot on the floor to gain access.