Rear wheel only drive

[Lazymechanic]

As many here on the forum, I have more than a couple parts cars. One of them has a busted trans. Any time I think about having to pull a transmission, It's not a pleasant notion. I don't have a lift. I think about how simple and easy it used to be to pull the Muncie out of my old camaro. 4 bolts on the bell housing behind the clutch and away we go.

It would really be usefull if one of my spare Tercels had that kind of set up. Simple rear wheel drive for the summer, no front CV joints to go bad, even better fuel economy than front wheel drive, being able to swap motors that much quicker and some times you just want to kick the tail out around the turns . . .

Does anyone know if any of the toyotas had the same engine and rear wheel drive? Maybe one of the pickups? Just think how easy those old Muncies used to be.

[Highlander]

Yeah, they made Tercel wagons in 2WD versions- a number of listers have them . I haven't the faintest idea of how many are still running. There are some of them around here in Colorado, but mostly T4WDs.
Edit- See, this is why I keep my mouth shut-

[Petros]

The 2wd version of our car is front wheel drive, you can convert it to FWD but you would not get rid of the cv joints.

To make it RWD You likely can get an early rwd corolla trans to work, '85-87 had both 4 speed and 5 speed available, and it should bolt up. You may have to swap flywheels so the starter will work properly, they have a .75" larger ring gear. You may want to leave the front axle stubs in the hubs, it may not be save without the front stub bolted in place to hold everything together. Or switch out the front strut for a earlier toytoa with rwd. It should save a lot of weight to get rid of the front drive train.

But why? the 4wd feature is the best part about these funky little wagons.

[Snax]

But why? the 4wd feature is the best part about these funky little wagons.

Agreed.

I have to wonder how well engineered the rear differential is for such a thing though. Toyota likely didn't build it for 100% duty, so the gears may not hold up to long term use that way. I'd imagine that the same holds true for simply leaving the 4WD selected 24/7 with the front half shafts removed, potentially wearing out the transfer case gearing quickly.

[ARCHINSTL]

The subject of the rear diff holding up over the long run is interesting.
My impression has always been that the rear axle was the same as the RWD Corolla of similar vintage - the innards, anyway. I recall the Toy service manager at the dealership telling me that back in '83 (the salesman, of course, was clueless). I think I recall him telling me that Toy just welded on different brackets for the suspension.
I just checked the CandD report on our home page and it echoes the manager's comment.
If so - wouldn't it be similarly strong?
Tom M.

[takza]

Don't think there are transfer case gears...just a splined sleeve...which is what you shift.

[Snax]

I see little risk to just pulling the front shafts then so long as one keeps the CV cups/stubs installed into the transmission and hubs. I don't know that I would want to try it myself though unless I absolutely had to - such as breaking a half shaft out in the sticks. On the other hand, it might be fun to make one of these things into a drift machine.

[terceldude]

An 83 SR5 RWD Wagon would be very interesting, precisely!!!!

[Typrus]

Remove the outer cups from either side of the CV. Bolt the outer cup in, shove the inner cup in. Boom. Retains the spiders and gear lube in the tranny, keep the hub together up front.
Drive in 4wd all the time.

The diff would likely handle 62-72HP fine. 6.2" ring. The 4AGE GTS Corolla has a 6.7". So an extra half inch for double the horsies. Well, just in this instance lol.

Now, how would the tranny bearings cope with constant RWD duty? Not sure.

Even better fuel economy? Doubtful. More drivetrain loss in RWD than FWD. More fun? You bet. Scaring people in the local roundabouts=priceless.

Nothing RWD used the 3AC, except for a special MR2 in Japan if I remember right. But even then, its a transverse, midship. Well, actually, I might remember there also being a special 3A series engine powered RWD Corolla in Japan also... But don't quote me on either of those. And have fun finding parts.

With a front crossmember and suspension redesign, an AE86 swap would be realistic.

[Petros]

With a front crossmember and suspension redesign, an AE86 swap would be realistic.

I do not think so, the cross member is further back on the AE86 and the suspension pick-up points are different, rack in different location. It might be possible, but it would not be an easy swap. Might be easier to make use of the AE86 front struts, or perhaps from an earlier rwd Corolla. But with the use of the front outer stubs from each half shaft, the standard front end will work fine.

It would be far easier to get a rwd trans from AE86 and drop the front axles (and use use the outer stubs in the Tercel front hubs as noted above). You might have to have a custom length drive shaft made using the parts from the AE86 drive shaft and the Tercel drive shaft, but that should not be too difficult or expensive from a drive line shop.

I do not think I would want (and you certainly do not need) the front differential and axle output sockets on the trans if you convert it to RWD. That is a lot of weight, rotating friction and unnecessary parts to be dragging around. Find a rwd trans to put in it, any rwd trans that mates to the 3a or 4a engine in any model car should bolt right up in the tercel.

[Lazymechanic]

I'm so glad I've generated interest on the subject. Being such a "Lazy Mechanic" I recognize that many of you have much put a lot more thought into lots of toyota models, not just our Tercels. First thought about the differential: Having no third differential between the front and back, just having different wear rates on the front and back tires and driving on dry pavement puts considerable stress on both the front and back. Despite cautioning against it, Toyota must have considered that many drivers would do this more often then they should. Therefore, I have to believe Toyota considered this as well as cornering and made both front and back differential good and strong. After all, What established the reputation of Toyota Pickup trucks is that they made them stronger than the Light 4-banger Pickups that all the other companies slapped together. Actually, the Pickups are what I was thinking might have the right trans. Didn't they use the 1.5L motor in one about the same time? Wasn't the 2wd Pickup rear wheel drive? the idea is that the rear would have more traction if the bed was loaded up. Same goes if you're hauling in the wagon.

As for my intentions for this experiment: I absolutely lament my lack of driftability in my current vehichles. My only fix for this (and this might scare some of you) is a '76 Honda Goldwing with dry rotted tires. Nothing like kicking it dirt track style on a 580 lb. street bike. Where was I? oh yea, I really just want to be able to slap motors in and out of my parts car with half the trouble that the 4wd or even Fwd requires (being so Lazy and all). If it took as little effort as my old muscle cars, I'd be rotating motors in that just to feel them out before pulling my commuter off the road.

In any event, keep thinking about a low-buck drifter. Yes, Yes, what fun to kick it loose . . .

[4wdchico]

The t-50 trans 5speed from an ae86 will bolt up to a 3a/4a engine just fine. But the resulting assembly will not install into our tercel's engine compartment w/o dropping the engine down closer to the road or getting into firewall salad surgery. So modifying the engine mounts or cross member will be required if one does not want to get into the firewall issue. The advantage would be that the resulting car would have a lower CG and very possibly room for a 4age engine w/o modifying the hood.

Then we modify the outboard cv's on the front wheels to drive air motor/compressors so that air regen braking can provide air power to our front wheels to get us off the line from a stop. This would save gas and greatly extend clutch life. Short bursts of front wheel air power would also be available to provide limited 4wd to get us thru difficult sections.

What do you think of that???

[terceldude]

I do not want a RWD car!!!! I am happy with 4WD/AWD!!!!!!!!

[Typrus]

terceldude, go read How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie. Really.


By a redesign I meant a serious one. Not just a movement.

If you remove the front diff you'll have more room to drop the engine.

If you were going super low-buck, keeping the front assembly would work.

[Lazymechanic]

This is good. The T50 trans. I figured since the stock transmission output shaft is not in-line with the clutch center, I'd have to lower the motor. The only other concern is where the shifter ends up. It looks like it's further back than the one on the Tercel. Knit picking at this point though. As far as the Pneumatic drive for the front wheels, it's a nice idea, but I'd like to know if you've implemented anything of the sort. I can't imagine you're fabricating drive mechanisms from scratch, so what equipment uses such a thing that you'd be retrofitting? I've seen hydrolic drive for construction equipment like this fork/crane that used to tool around a site I worked one summer, but never pneumatic drive. And generating/compressing as well as driving too? Let me know where to find this stuff. So looking for the T50, I found pictures of hopped up corollas. I figure it was one of the options for one of the sporty ones, but if you have more specifics about what models had this trans and when, it'd be a big help. I think I'll be cruising junkyard row once I have all the info. The best deals are the least organized yards where you have to tell them what cars you want to check out. Go in with a part number and see the guy check his computer database and you know he's gonna charge top dollar. "Irrigadless" I'm jazzed. There's windy roads I've tried to forget that are knawing on me now that the drift is creeping back into my dreams . . .