Pulleys Confuse Me!

[miyagi-san]

Please be gentle, I'm a mechanical idiot.

I've got a 1985 Tercel 4WD with no AC, with PS. When I bought this feller about two months ago, it'd been sitting for a bit and I tore up the dried out serpentine belt the first day. Easy replacement, right? Took off the big pulley at the bottom (the one that's attached to the engine and powers both the alternator/waterpump belt and the power steering belt), it came off almost too easily I thought, fed the belts on, tightened things up with a ratchet and away I went.

1500 miles later, I'm bebopping down the highway and I hear a big clunk under the car, the heat and electric warning lights come on. Pull off the road, find the serpentine belt off again, but not messed up. Instead, the bottom pulley is loose, and I figure out that the bolt that held it on is completely gone.

Okay, so my questions are:

1. What in the world do you call that big pulley at the bottom? Because I went to the NAPA to get a bolt today, and the idiot behind the counter (he's a new guy I'd never seen there before) couldn't make head or tail of what I was telling him... so what should I tell him I need to get a bolt and washer to make this pulley stay on.

2. Once I finally get this bolt, how can I tighten this bolt on there knowing that the pulley's going to turn when I get it tight? Will I need to pull the radiator to make this happen (it's a tight fit but I got it on last time, of course it came off later)?

Thanks in advance for all your helps!

[ARCHINSTL]

Welcome to the Club!
We do have the FSM on the Home site available for perusal/download.
Also do a Search on this site for a writeup - it's here.
Also check out the AutoZone site' it has an excellent complete repair manual for the Tercel - frequently better than the FSM, as it has photographs. All you have to do is register your car - or - http://www.autozone.com/shopping/repair ... 5280051e89.
Also go to http://www.napaonline.com and enter your car; it, too, will give you a NAPA part number for the bolt.
Incidentally, that bolt takes 87 foot-pounds worth of torque - pretty hard to do with just a regular-length ratchet.
Tom M.

[takza]

You have to use that big pulley to time the ignit and it has a key in there which you will need to replace. The key is probably a dealer item. Also...when it was loose it MIGHT have messed up the slot in the pulley or even the crankshaft...though the key is supposed to be soft enough that this doesn't happen.

Be very careful as to what bolt you try to use there...cause if you bung up the threads in the crank...you are out of business. Get it either at a dealer or a recycler.

I usually pull the starter and use a c-clamp on the flywheel in the hole to keep the engine from turning when I torque this bolt.

[Petros]

This is just called the front drive pulley, or the crank pulley. Pulling the radiator is easy (two 12mm bolts on top, two hoses and a wire connector), well worth it for the extra clearance, and to get a good look at what you are doing. At this point you should pull out the front pulley and inspect it and the crank key and keyway for damage. I would just go to a pull-a-part type wrecking yard and find a new bolt (and possibly front pulley and key as well if you need it). Take a breaker bar and a pipe that fits over it for a lever extension. Hold the engine from turning by pulling a spark plug and fill the combustion chamber with a length of rope, it is the easiest way. When the pistion is before TDC, it will push against the rope and not allow the engine to turn. Just pull the rope out when done.

If you have trouble keeping the bolt tight you could put a little loc-tite on it (not too much!), but I have found no trouble with it properly torqued to 87 ft-lbs. I have removed this pulley about 6 times on the various Tercels and different engines I have owned and never had one come loose.

BTW, if you do not have a torque wrench that goes that high, you can either rent one, or use your cheater pipe extension, and hang the calculated amount of weight at the horizontal length of the lever to get 87 ft-pounds (more accurate than a torqure wrench!).

Good luck

[miyagi-san]

Thanks for your help everyone!

This project is going to have to wait until after the holiday, because I don't have enough time off or money until Dec 1. But, I have a much better idea what to do now, though the idea of pulling a spark plug and filling the cylinder with rope seems a little outside of my ability just yet, but I'm willing to try anything. A couple questions (I told you, I'm a real beginner at this stuff): crank key and keyway... what are these? And what is TDC? I mean, I guess it's a position for the piston, right?

I am in the snow belt of Ohio, though, and I've actually not seen a single one of these on the road (rust, probably... there are piles and piles of salt all over the road if they think it might snow) since I bought mine. I hope the junk yards around here have some of these little cars. Does anyone know if the bolt for this pulley will be the same for one of these cars with AC, or in a non-wagon tercel from the same time period? I assume that if there are none of these in the junk yard that a dealer would be able to get this part, probably, right?

[takza]

You should DL the FSM and look at all the nice pictures and stuff? Some nice reading for a lazy Sunday.

If you are new at it...the main thing is to have a good manual and follow the instructions to the letter...to some extent at least. A lot of mechanical knowledge is general to all vehicles...some is specific to the particular vehicle. There are some costly mistakes you can make though.

Your venture into "pulley land" is getting you fairly close to some possible mistakes.

A quick fix for this winter is to just find the right bolt and torque it in there (you can worry about a new key and timing it later?) ...the rope in the plug hole is easier than a c-clamp in the starter hole. Find the right bolt...put some soft braided rope into a plug hole...snug it down real well...about as tight as you can get it with a regular ratchet wrench with socket?

The 3AC engine is pretty common...so a bolt should be fairly easy to find.

You might find the old bolt laying down on the plastic splash shield if you look?

[Petros]

okay, basics: TDC is short for "top dead center" which just means when the piston is at the top of its stroke at the beginning of the power stroke (both intake and exhaust valves are closed and the fuel/air mixture is compressed). When the number one cyl is at "TDC" it means it is where the spark plug fires at the beginning of the power stroke. If you remove the front spark plug and slowly turn the engine (either with the wrench on the front pulley, or by putting it in gear with the brake off and push the car so the engine turns) you can see the top of the piston through the hole as it approaches top dead center (a strong flash light helps).

If you feed a length of soft rope into the combustion chamber through the spark plug hole when the piston is on the upward stroke (before TDC), when the crank turns a little further the piston will compress against the soft rope and stop the engine from turning. It is the easiest way to stop the engine without doing harm to it, so you can torque the pulley bolt to 87 ft-lbs (you can also use it to remove the bolt, but you have to have the piston on the up stroke in the direction you are turning the nut, the other way from tightening it).

The key and key way is a means on the crank pulley to keep it from spinning on the end of the crank. The key way is a square groove about 1/4 inch wide cut into both the inside of the pulley and the outside of the crank shaft front end. The key is a square length of softer metal that goes in the grooves and locks the pulley from turning on the end of the crank. The end bolt only holds it all together, it does not keep the pulley from rotating. Note that some modern keys actually look like think half coins, instead of a short length of square rod. it fits into a semi-circular slot cut into the crank, but it looks the same from the outside.

do not be intimidated, this is not that complicated to fix. Someone who has done any auto work before can help you through it. To give you an idea, I can have your radiator out in about 5 min, and the pulley bolt off within another five (including the spark plug and rope trick). I have done it many times, so I know it will take a beginner much longer, but just to give you an idea that the actual steps are not that difficult or time consuming. Tugging on the pulley make it come out, some times you need a puller, but not usually.

Good luck.

[miyagi-san]

Thanks for the advice everyone!

I never did find a Tercel old enough in a local junk yard, but I ordered the bolt and washer from the dealer for $4.00.

Bolt came in today, and I followed the steps.... took out the radiator, pulled the pulley, cleaned it up, did the sparkplug/rope trick (which was way easier to do than it sounded like), torqued it up to about 87 ft-lbs, put back in the radiator, and voila! Nothing like getting your hands dirty and having your car work better than before you dug in.... I know it was a small fix, but for someone like me it was rewarding.

Of course, when I pulled the sparkplug, I figured out that it was in rough shape, so I went ahead and replaced them too... and changed the oil and the air filter, and it runs much better than before. I think we can call this case closed!

My next step is going to be changing the fuel filter, then working on the valves and the timing. Was I right to read that the valves on these guys are manually adjusted, like my old bug was? That'll be an adventure, to be sure.

Thanks again, everyone!

[takza]

There is a writeup on the valves...I'd recommend doing them COLD for your first try. The cold specs are different than hot specs. Very easy to get mixed up with this job.