Hey all,
Wanted to get some input from anyone willing to dish out advice.
My second Tercel wagon (2WD) has a very very worn out ignition.
Not the cool type that any key can start. The screwed up one that no key will work in it.
It takes me about 15 minutes of giggleing to get it going. Major problem is this is'nt my car, it's my girl friends car, . I need to make it as reliable as possible for her. The entire point of this car is to spend as little money as possible. I don't want to dish out for a new ignition, I was thinking it would be cool to simple have a hidden toggle switch with a simple push to start button. I have not tried to figure out what wires do what yet because I wanted to talk to you guys about this topic first before I dive into this. Of course it would be easy to steal, but I can't win them all and I doubt anyone would even want to steal a car like this. Has anyone had any need to do this? Any advice? and that said anyone know the wire layout? I doubt that would be in the standard manual.
To give you a perspective - from Butler Toy in Indy: Lock cylinder $80 and ignition switch $71 - and this dealer has XLNT pricing (for a Toy dealer, anyway...).
How about a salvage yard? Can't be too much, particularly considering the convenience of a key (and implied theft-resistamce).
Tom M.
T4WD augury?
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit." T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"
"Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates." Mark Twain
True.
If I can take care of the labour I don't think I'd mind spending a bit more on the parts.
Perhaps I'm not pictureing an ignition properly?
Is it a simple device that has a plug on the end thats as easy to change as a head light?
I'd have no problem taken the dash apart to get to it. But when I've been in there I have never
looked at the ignition in great detail.
Since it doesn't move you will have to strong arm it with a screwdriver/wrench as it has to be out of lock postion to push the little release button in. Or jiggle it for 15 minutes as you stated. Pretty easy fix overall. Lower column cover is the only thing in your way.
There are two parts involved when you turn the key to start the car. One is the lock cylinder assembly (the part that's actually bad in your car), and the switch. If the car starts and runs once you get the key to turn, chances are the switch is fine. I don't know about the cost in Canada, but here I can buy a new aftermarket lock with two keys for $28 plus tax. AutoZone FTW. If you watch ebay you might even find one cheaper.
My cylinder lock has gone weird at least 2xs that I can remember...and strangely enough a good soaking in oil seems to cure it. I use WD40 or 10 W machine/electric oil.
Or...you need two switches...an ON switch for the ignit and a momentary ON switch to run the starter. The ignit switch could be small and hidden...while the starter switch should be at least 2-3" in diameter and right on the dash.
Give a boy a gun-give a biatch a cell phone-and pretty soon you almost got yourself a police state.
Orwell said: War is peace! Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength...
Mine (first terc-'83) didn't respond to oiling or anything else when it crapped out. I was lucky enough to be able to jiggle it to the ON position after I bought a replacement ($25 about 6 years ago). The hardest part about the replacement is getting the upper column cover off if you don't have a tilt wheel. I'd replace the switch, it's a low cost solution that won't make you spend 3 hours rewiring, Plus you won't be at fault when your GFs car stops in the middle of a blizzard because a wire just failed Just my $.02
'83 SR5-299K, -tRusty!
'85 SR5-265K--GOLD
'85 SR5-285K-- GOLD-New engine!
'85 SR5-238K -- Teal-Killed by a DD
'58 and '62 Austin-Healey Sprites
Thanks for all your input.
This car does not have tilt steering. If removing the entire ignition and replaceing it is fairly easy I'm game. But @ the same time it would really be easy to mount a toggle switch with a momentary push button switch. The only thing I'd have to know is what wires to tap into. I would'nt have to even remove the ignition to do this no? Leave it in place but simple tap into the four wires I'd need? One for the ignition on switch, and the spring loaded starter button. Does anyone know the wireing layout for those two circuts?
I have a solution for you that is free. I had this exact same problem with my first Tercel. the tumblers in the lock get fatigued and break off, making the ignition very difficult if not impossible to use. I fixed mine for free. It is easy.
Remove the steering column cover to expose the ignition key and steering lock. If you can get the key to turn at all it makes it much easier, try penetrating oil (WD-40 or similar) and wiggle the key. If you can get it to turn, there is small "button" at the back of the cylinder that lock the cylinder into the barrel. You push in when at the extreme end of the key turning, you will have to try both ways, I do not remember which way it becomes free to push. You might need a small nail or other sharp object to push it in. Once depressed the cylinder lock will come out in your hand when you pull it strait out. If you can not get the cyl. to turn at all you have to drill, file or grind this button off. It can be broken off carefully and still be able to use the lock (that is what I hand to do since it would not turn at all).
Once the cylinder is out, you can remove all of the tumblers, and broken bits and little springs. It is possible to leave the good ones, but if these also fail later you will be in the same predicament. I just took them all out, and I suggest you do the same. It will make it the most reliable. And do not tell anyone about it, not even your girlfriend.
Then replace the lock cylinder without the tumblers. You will be able to start the car with the key, or any other key that will fit in the ignition cylinder. Or a small screw driver for that matter. If you just leave the cylinder in the the ignition switch, it will be a "decoy" to fake out any thief. If you lock the doors, it will not matter anyway.
I had to break off the button that holds the cylinder in the barrel because I was away from home and did not have all my tools. I reinstalled the cylinder and just drove it like that for several years. If I pulled on it, it would just come out again, this is why it is much better if you can get the key to turn in the lock, even if you force it.
It is an easy job, it only took me about 10-15 min. including getting the cylinder free from the barrel. All you need is a Philips screw driver to remove the steering column cover, and something to push the cylinder lock in. I would not spend any money on such an old car just to fix a worn-out ignition.
Petros wrote:I have a solution for you that is free.
That sounds excellent.
I'm going to dive into that real soon. I can't thank you all enough for the quick responses to my questions. I'll write a follow up post as soon as I get the job done and let you all know how it went.
I found the little release switch for the ignition, It just won't come out, I removed the back little peice to show me which way I had to have the key to line up the little tab so it would slide out. I think it is just jammed hardcore. I pushed that little "button" on the top back of the unit and it depresses a little bit. It clicks down a little bit, but not enough to clear enough to allow the ignition to pull/slide out. I'm letting it soak in wd-40 but it is looking more and more like I'm going to have to add a toggle & starter button. I found the four wires going directly to the unit that the key turns, but of course I still have no idea what wire does what. Does anyone know these wires layout or where I can find them?
Just keep working it, it will come free. Consider the broken tumblers might be keeping it from sliding out, not the locking pin. Get everything lined up and jiggle it a lot. Or if that fails, pull real hard, you might have to shear off the broken tumbler, I did on mine.
You can not make it worse than it is now, so do not be afraid of force it if you have to, it is already jammed up now.
You can find a wiring diagram in the on-line Factory Service Manual from the link on this site.
Alright,
Got it out,
Totally destroyed it doing it. The little depressor button will not depress at all. Totally does on my other car. I had to compair. It just presses right in when the key is in the correct position. But not on my other car. So I drilled it out. Had to take apart most of the dash to allow my drill to get the correct angle. Would have been easyer with my other car & it's tilt steering. Anyways... heh Once it was drilled out it was able to pull it out, but I still have to pull mega hard. But with the button removed (drilled out) it won't stay in and it is too damaged to work correctly anymore anyways. So alas, I am going to add the toggle "on" switch with the push to start button. The spring in the most rear part that springs back once you "start" the car does'nt work. So the starter stays on. Easyer for my girl friend to not have to remember to turn the key back to stop the starter from starting. A push button will be just fine. In the meantime I will put the parts back in (or at least most of them) so it apears to still need a key. I'll just hide the buttons ect. Of course I wanted to see how the tumblers worked. It was easy to remove them and I highly recommend doing that for anyone who is having the same problem. It really would have only taken me 10 to 15 like Petros said if that button was'nt jammed.
Petros, your directions to do the job were great and I must thank you.
Now i'm off to read what wires do what, I pulled the wireing harner so I can soder up a new connection to the buttons
. I need to make it as reliable as possible for her. The entire point of this car is to spend as little money as possible. I don't want to dish out for a new ignition, I was thinking it would be cool to simple have a hidden toggle switch with a simple push to start button. I have not tried to figure out what wires do what yet because I wanted to talk to you guys about this topic first before I dive into this. Of course it would be easy to steal, but I can't win them all and I doubt anyone would even want to steal a car like this. Has anyone had any need to do this? Any advice? and that said anyone know the wire layout? I doubt that would be in the standard manual.
Just my $.02
