Ok,
So i have a 1983 toyota tercel 4wd sr5 with 3a-c engine. I got it cheap after it sat for along time. I got it running, and it ran good for awhile. Then it started to act up. It would run, and then just die out. I have thought i have fixed this problem many times, as i would be able to drive several mile, sometimes up to 200ish without it occouring again.
When it would act up, it would die out, and not get fuel. Sometimes it would start right back up, but then die. Once left sit a few hours/minutes it would run, and get me home.
I have replaced filters, pumps, and everything else, even have had a few carbs on it. Currently i have a carb not exactly for this engine, but it works. I have gotten a whole bunch of info from www.shopkey5.com. And also have a chiltons.
I currently think its the Fuel cut off system. I tested the vaccum switches and they are not testing correctly. I called around, and can not get these. I don't know of other ways to check, or other things to check at this moment. I need to read up on the info i got.
If anyone has any ideas please hit me up, I NEED this car for work.
feedback sensors, and fuel cut off system
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sdoan
- Top Notch Member
- Posts: 392
- Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2007 2:02 pm
- My tercel:: 1983 Tercel 4wd DLX 2nd owner (sold), 1984 SR5 3rd owner (sold), 1984 with 4A engine and factory sunroof SR5 3rd owner.
- Location: Bellingham, WA
Re: feedback sensors, and fuel cut off system
Apologies for the length of this!
Try the Gas cap - if it doesn't vent the fuel pump will be pulling against a vacuum - this may be enough to starve the engine. Make sure that air can get into the tank via the gas cap.
If the cap does vent air into the tank then confirm it is a fuel problem. The front of the original carb has a sight glass in it so you can see the fuel in the carb. Clean the glass and use a flashlight to see the fuel level when everything is OK, then check again after it dies. (On some versions the air cleaner must be lifted to see the sight glass.) I suppose you could also just take the lid off the air cleaner and push on the throttle to see that the accelerator pump squirts gas into the carb before and after failure - no squirt = no fuel (or bad accelerator pump).
If test shows no fuel then it might be sludge in the bottom of the gas tank. A friend had this problem on a different kind of car. The fuel pick-up in the tank had a little filter on it that would get clogged as he was driving - even on the freeway. It was picking up rust flakes or sludge from the bottom of the tank (especially if the car has been sitting). He would stop, the car would sit a moment and then he could continue driving. The solution was to drain and rinse out the gas tank with clean gas. There should be a drain plug for this - but I don't know for sure.
If it's not a fuel problem it is likely an electrical problem. I just replaced a coil (but not on a Tercel) that seemed to work perfectly but would fail only when hot - after driving 25 miles or so. To check this you could drive with an inductive timing light connected (and strapped securely in the engine bay) to see visually if you lose spark. A way to check electrical current to the coil MIGHT be with the tach. (I don't know if this works for sure - but I think it might.) If your SR5 tach is working and you're driving along and the car dies because of lack of fuel and you leave the ignition on and the car in gear (I would think that) the tach should show the engine rpm as you coast to a stop. If the tach goes to 0rpm as soon as the engine dies (in stead of as soon as the car stops coasting) I would check to see that the dist and coil are still getting current.
I think it is unlikely that it is the fuel cut system because the fuel cut system only cuts part of the fuel and my car was driveable with it disconnected.
Hope this helps.
Try the Gas cap - if it doesn't vent the fuel pump will be pulling against a vacuum - this may be enough to starve the engine. Make sure that air can get into the tank via the gas cap.
If the cap does vent air into the tank then confirm it is a fuel problem. The front of the original carb has a sight glass in it so you can see the fuel in the carb. Clean the glass and use a flashlight to see the fuel level when everything is OK, then check again after it dies. (On some versions the air cleaner must be lifted to see the sight glass.) I suppose you could also just take the lid off the air cleaner and push on the throttle to see that the accelerator pump squirts gas into the carb before and after failure - no squirt = no fuel (or bad accelerator pump).
If test shows no fuel then it might be sludge in the bottom of the gas tank. A friend had this problem on a different kind of car. The fuel pick-up in the tank had a little filter on it that would get clogged as he was driving - even on the freeway. It was picking up rust flakes or sludge from the bottom of the tank (especially if the car has been sitting). He would stop, the car would sit a moment and then he could continue driving. The solution was to drain and rinse out the gas tank with clean gas. There should be a drain plug for this - but I don't know for sure.
If it's not a fuel problem it is likely an electrical problem. I just replaced a coil (but not on a Tercel) that seemed to work perfectly but would fail only when hot - after driving 25 miles or so. To check this you could drive with an inductive timing light connected (and strapped securely in the engine bay) to see visually if you lose spark. A way to check electrical current to the coil MIGHT be with the tach. (I don't know if this works for sure - but I think it might.) If your SR5 tach is working and you're driving along and the car dies because of lack of fuel and you leave the ignition on and the car in gear (I would think that) the tach should show the engine rpm as you coast to a stop. If the tach goes to 0rpm as soon as the engine dies (in stead of as soon as the car stops coasting) I would check to see that the dist and coil are still getting current.
I think it is unlikely that it is the fuel cut system because the fuel cut system only cuts part of the fuel and my car was driveable with it disconnected.
Hope this helps.
Re: feedback sensors, and fuel cut off system
Thanks for the information.
I am 99% sure its fuel as i have a filter with clear case and i can see that when it dies, fuel is drianed, and does not flow into the filter when cranking. I have tested the pump, and it puts out the correct PSI, and passes the test where you plug the ports and it should lock up.
As far as the cap venting, thats no problem, there is a rust hole in the filler neck, at the base, so i know it vents. I will replace this once i get the car running well. The tank should be fairly clean, as i took it off, sand blasted it, and then had it hot washed. But i also removed the filter from the bottom of the pickup line so it shouldnt be clogging, but it may be.
I would test it with an external gas can/tank but its hard to get it to act up sitting in the driveway. I pretty much have to be driving.
As far as spark goes, i will have to check that. But if i remember correctly (usually to ticked off to pay attention) I think the tach bounces as the engine dies out.
I am 99% sure its fuel as i have a filter with clear case and i can see that when it dies, fuel is drianed, and does not flow into the filter when cranking. I have tested the pump, and it puts out the correct PSI, and passes the test where you plug the ports and it should lock up.
As far as the cap venting, thats no problem, there is a rust hole in the filler neck, at the base, so i know it vents. I will replace this once i get the car running well. The tank should be fairly clean, as i took it off, sand blasted it, and then had it hot washed. But i also removed the filter from the bottom of the pickup line so it shouldnt be clogging, but it may be.
I would test it with an external gas can/tank but its hard to get it to act up sitting in the driveway. I pretty much have to be driving.
As far as spark goes, i will have to check that. But if i remember correctly (usually to ticked off to pay attention) I think the tach bounces as the engine dies out.
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sdoan
- Top Notch Member
- Posts: 392
- Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2007 2:02 pm
- My tercel:: 1983 Tercel 4wd DLX 2nd owner (sold), 1984 SR5 3rd owner (sold), 1984 with 4A engine and factory sunroof SR5 3rd owner.
- Location: Bellingham, WA
Re: feedback sensors, and fuel cut off system
Sounds like you've done a lot of searching and problem solving already. I have a clear filter on mine and it never seems full of fuel so it may not be a good indication of the fuel level in the carb.
Just to confirm the fuel cut hypothesis you might just disconnect the 4 wire green electrical plug that goes to the carb to see if the symptoms are like the engine dying. I don't know if it will run this way or not. What was disconnected on mine was the vacuum to the switches and the EBCV, not the electrical to the fuel cut solenoids. The red wire in the plug is the choke heater so you might have to block it open.
When your car dies out, does the engine lose power and still idle, or does it stop running completely?
Just to confirm the fuel cut hypothesis you might just disconnect the 4 wire green electrical plug that goes to the carb to see if the symptoms are like the engine dying. I don't know if it will run this way or not. What was disconnected on mine was the vacuum to the switches and the EBCV, not the electrical to the fuel cut solenoids. The red wire in the plug is the choke heater so you might have to block it open.
When your car dies out, does the engine lose power and still idle, or does it stop running completely?
Re: feedback sensors, and fuel cut off system
Yes, i have. I got alot of info from shopkey but havent had time to read it. Our church had a fire in the educational building (arson) so i am one of the ones helping clean up the stuff that needs thrown away, and getting ready for the crew to come in.
On the filter, when its running, i can see a trickle, and normally it has a small amount of "puddled" fuel in it. when this occours it is dry, and no fuel appears even when cranking.
I can unplug the solenoids, and it will die. I have unplugged a few vacuum lines, such as the vaccum swithces for the cut off, and it still runs, but those switches seem to test bad anyway.
when it dies, it normally will die down to a very low idle, and be jerky. sometimes you need to hold the pedal down to even keep it running, and then only at around 1200rpm. but then it eventually, ussualy 30sec-2 minutes, will either come out of it, or die all the way down. Once it dies, it will try to start, i assume this is using the little gas in the cylinders, and the carb.
On the filter, when its running, i can see a trickle, and normally it has a small amount of "puddled" fuel in it. when this occours it is dry, and no fuel appears even when cranking.
I can unplug the solenoids, and it will die. I have unplugged a few vacuum lines, such as the vaccum swithces for the cut off, and it still runs, but those switches seem to test bad anyway.
when it dies, it normally will die down to a very low idle, and be jerky. sometimes you need to hold the pedal down to even keep it running, and then only at around 1200rpm. but then it eventually, ussualy 30sec-2 minutes, will either come out of it, or die all the way down. Once it dies, it will try to start, i assume this is using the little gas in the cylinders, and the carb.
Re: feedback sensors, and fuel cut off system
Could be a pinhole leak in the line coming from the tank so that it is sucking air? Might work to spray this line with the white grease in a spray can (lithium?)...as it comes out thin and then dries to a grease consistency...if you hit the entire length carefully you might plug the pinhole and fix it temporarily. Could have air leaks at the filter connxs or near the tank?
Give a boy a gun-give a biatch a cell phone-and pretty soon you almost got yourself a police state.
Orwell said: War is peace! Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength...
Orwell said: War is peace! Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength...
Re: feedback sensors, and fuel cut off system
You may want to look at the distributor shaft bearing. When this wears out, it allows the shaft to wobble, causing a varying gap between the reluctor and ignitor. You have to remove the cap, then line up a vane with the line on the ignitor, measure the gap, then push the shaft away from the ignitor. If the gap opens up beyond .017 and it is less than .003 when pushed toward the ignitor, you will need to replace the distributor.
Right at the edge of its limits, you get intermittent running. Its also unpredictable, there doesn't seem to be a pattern as to when it will run and when it won't.
Right at the edge of its limits, you get intermittent running. Its also unpredictable, there doesn't seem to be a pattern as to when it will run and when it won't.
Re: feedback sensors, and fuel cut off system
thanks for the idea's. I have yet had time to tear into it. Still down cleaning up fire debri.
I will check all the things listed below.
Anyone have a spare carb that is correct for the 3a-c engine?
I will check all the things listed below.
Anyone have a spare carb that is correct for the 3a-c engine?
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Neu
- Highest Ranking Member
- Posts: 1191
- Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:59 am
- My tercel:: 1985 SR5 No Mods
- Location: Hillsboro, Oregon, USA
- Contact:
Re: feedback sensors, and fuel cut off system
Goto a junk yard and grab a distributor for an AE86 engine. This is newer corollas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AE86
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AE86
Re: feedback sensors, and fuel cut off system
what are the benifits of this? also, how do i identify the distibutor if i am looking around for one. I just briefly checked a online salvage yard close, and they didnt turn up with any from 83-84. I will check a few more sites and call around locally when i get a few minutes other than lunch break.
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Neu
- Highest Ranking Member
- Posts: 1191
- Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:59 am
- My tercel:: 1985 SR5 No Mods
- Location: Hillsboro, Oregon, USA
- Contact:
Re: feedback sensors, and fuel cut off system
I think it just makes it a lil peppy.
There are plenty of random posts all around to tell you about the AE86 dizzy. Here's a search.
http://www.tercel4wd.com/forums/search. ... +&start=15
Page 2 gets better.
There are plenty of random posts all around to tell you about the AE86 dizzy. Here's a search.
http://www.tercel4wd.com/forums/search. ... +&start=15
Page 2 gets better.