Hard shifting when cold, somewhat better when warm

otter63 · Post by **otter63** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:48 am

Got my Tercel back. The guy who "bought" it from me couldn't come up with the money. Anyway, I love driving it again, but at 259,000 miles, it's having some issues.

Most pressing is that when it's cold, it's difficult or impossible to get into 2nd or 3rd gears. I looked at all the posts about the shifter freezing up, but it still happens when it's only 40F or so, not cold enough to freeze. After I drive it for about 5 minutes, I can get it into 3rd, then after another few minutes, it will go into second.

Do I have sludge in my transmission that liquifies when it get warmer? Is the oil of the wrong viscosity? Are my synchros bad? Any other ideas?

takza · Post by **takza** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 4:13 am

That area on top can be rusty and dry also. Oil in trans can be low or a too heavy weight.

Neu · Post by **Neu** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:53 pm

DO NOT DO A TRANNY FLUSH.

Just drain the tranny fluid, and then refill it again, top it off well. That should do it.

otter63 · Post by **otter63** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:03 pm

Hmmmm . . . drained and refilled the tranny last year when I was having this issue. Didn't help, but warmer weather did. ?????

Why wouldn't I want to do a tranny flush?

Lazymechanic · Post by **Lazymechanic** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:39 pm

I had a VW camper that was tough to shift. I went up to Boston one winter on a very cold day. It became impossible to shift. The gears are binding on the shaft. When they heat up, they expand more than the shaft, partly since the heat is coming from the teeth of the gears so they get hotter. This loosens them up. I think, until you're ready to tear it down, getting the box hot is the only way you're going to get it loose. (No simile intended). Think about what oil you're putting in it as a balancing act between lubing it enough not to let it get worse and not being so good at its job as to prevent a little heat from building.

splatterdog · Post by **splatterdog** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 3:05 pm

Have you tried synthetic?

Post by **Petros** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 3:05 pm

if all those miles in on the original trans, it is likely near the end of its useful life. If an oil change does not help the trans, you likely need a new trans soon.

Start searching the local pull-a-parts to find a good trans for only $50. It is the only way it is worth doing it (or buy a parts car with a low miles trans).

A big job to change, but not as bad as some cars. Put in a new clutch while you are at it (and real seal and pilot bearing too).

Good luck.

takza · Post by **takza** » Sat Feb 09, 2008 6:22 am

Could be your clutch needs adjusting...still need some oil in the shifter on top if you haven't done that. Or...let it warm up in the driveway for 5 mins before you leave?

otter63 · Post by **otter63** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:24 pm

I did the braking clutch test, and the brakes/clutch kill the engine when the clutch is released, so I think the clutch disk is OK The automatic adjuster is near the end of its range, so the clutch is probably worn, but still serviceable. I tried putting about 2 oz of 80-90W gear oil in the well at the top of the shifter, and let it run down into the tranny, but it didn't change anything. To me, it feels as if the synchros are working, but just a little slowly, and they're sluggish when cold. So I'm warming it up for a few minutes before driving, and starting to look for a transmission.

Nearest and cheapest tranny is from Nix99 in Everett, WA for $550. There are some other listings on car-part.com, but they say "CORE CORE CORE". What does that mean? Do they need an exchange, or are they selling an exchanged part that hasn't been rebuilt yet?

How hard is it to follow the rebuild instructions in the FSM or Bentley books? Are new parts still available? Are there reasonable home-build options for the special service tools?

takza · Post by **takza** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:15 am

The real issue with your clutch is whether it is releasing fully?

My Terc had set for awhile I guess before I bought it...clutch looked to be gone...but after adjusting it out so it caught maybe 4-5 teeth and lubing it....it has gone strong for the last 50K miles. You can also wrap a length of coat hanger wire around either or both ends of the cable housing to get a little more release out of it.

Top of mine was dry and rusty...oil made a big diff. Shifted about like yours till I did. A full cup of gear oil won't hurt anything and I don't think much of it goes down into the trans anyway.

It's a lot of work to R&R a trans...espec when it might just be the clutch? Check your freeplay?

otter63 · Post by **otter63** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:18 pm

takza wrote:The real issue with your clutch is whether it is releasing fully?

My Terc had set for awhile I guess before I bought it...clutch looked to be gone...but after adjusting it out so it caught maybe 4-5 teeth and lubing it....it has gone strong for the last 50K miles. You can also wrap a length of coat hanger wire around either or both ends of the cable housing to get a little more release out of it.

Top of mine was dry and rusty...oil made a big diff. Shifted about like yours till I did. A full cup of gear oil won't hurt anything and I don't think much of it goes down into the trans anyway.

It's a lot of work to R&R a trans...espec when it might just be the clutch? Check your freeplay?

To see if it releasing fully, I will do the "jack it up, put it in gear with the clutch pedal depressed, see if the wheels turn" test this weekend.

My 86 has the automatic freeplay adjuster. Checked the pedal height and the freeplay, and they're both within spec. I tried to move the pawl by hand and adjust the freeplay, but the auto adjuster knew what I was up to and moved it right back to where it was. Pretty cool mechanism, though.

So I guess I will try wrapping some coat hanger around the pedal end of the cable. Not quite sure what you mean by that, but I think the idea is to effectively shorten the cable so that when you step on the pedal, the clutch releases more fully from the flywheel. Yes?

takza · Post by **takza** » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:59 am

Could be that the clutch itself is messed up (plate or ???)...release bearing...hard to say. The wire slightly lengthens the cable housing.

Before I put oil in the shifter...I had the same issues. Easier than pulling it?

otter63 · Post by **otter63** » Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:09 pm

As far as the shifter being dry and rusty, that wasn't a problem on mine. There was still some grease on it from 1985! As mentioned, I did put a couple of ounces of gear oil on there, but to no avail.

So I took the Terc in to an actual mechanic for a free diagnosis of my shifting problem. Of course, by then it was warm, but he drove it and then showed me a Honda transmission that had the same problem, which he had already apart on the bench. Anyway, he thinks my clutch is fine, and that the synchros and gears are worn enough that they just take a while longer to work. So I'll shift slowly and gently until I find a low miles tranny for less money.

takza · Post by **takza** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:59 am

I've driven 2 '83 trans that had from 160K to 230K miles on them and neither had the synchro problems that maybe the later models might have.

The oil needs to go UNDER the shifter (remove the c-clip) and you need to use enough to get it up and around the shaft that goes into the trans.

If I had a car like yours...I'd either warm it up before driving it...or learn to match gear speeds when shifting.

An early member...3ACPower had about the same issues...tried Redline synth gear oil and had the trans fail...but might have gotten water in it.