i remember why i dont like american vehicles..

[thebigbread]

ok, my dad got a 98 navigator may '06, all was fine until about late november-early december.

it started running rough, but we ignored it. by january, the thing refused to crank.

SOOO.. forward to about 3 weeks ago from today. my dad buys new spark plugs (pain in the &*^ to replace, took over 4 hours to replace all 2 new O2 sensors (at the cost of 60 bucks each).

the moment of truth... it refuses to start, & when it does start, it runs very rough & shuts off.

my dad goes inside & starts reading about sensor relays, powertrain fuses, ect.

i go outside, mess with it, & 15 minutes later it runs like it just rolled out of the showroom.

"what was wrong with it?" he asked..

what was wrong?


a $3 vacuum hose.

IM STUCK DRIVIN A BEAT UP 1988 F150 FOR THE PAST YEAR BECUASE OF A 3 DOLLAR PART THAT MY DAD SPENT MONTHS LOOKING FOR, & I POP THE HOOD AND FIND IT IN 15 MINUTES?

AND HES BEEN A MECHANIC FOR 30 YEARS?

...

and thats why i dont like american vehicles.. give me my tercel wagon any day

[Typrus]

lol.
Our Excursion has 105,000+ on it. We've put one set of brakes into it, paid for one set of tires (1st set was recalled at end of its treadlife and we got 4 new shiny ones) 1 alternator, 2 batteries, a pedal and shift column. For a $50k or so SUV, $3k in parts or so (tires are God-aweful expensive) is not bad.

However... My Terc has seen roughly $4k in parts. For a $8k new vehicle.... Yeah....... It may be 4 times as old, but thats still pretty harsh.


Ford diesels kick butt.

Muscle kicks butt.

Really old iron kicks butt. I'll take a Bel Air any day. Or a Model A with a rumble seat.



Sorry it was so simple. MAF and AFM equipped vehicles tend to hate vacuum leaks.

[thebigbread]

i agree with the ford diesels, they are good engines, but the v8 gasoline (especially 97-02 models) engines are pure crap.

american vehicles, IMO, useed to be better than imports, that is, until toyota & honda got a really good fanbase. not to mention most newer (late 90s-present day) american vehicles have really went down in quality & up in price.

heh.. give me a volkswagen golf VR6 or a civic SI hatchback. & im fine. my dad insists on me driving a F450 or a navigator, but its just impractical. i mean, do i need a 7 passenger vehicle, when i ALWAYS drive alone? not to mention a average of 12mpg.. ouch.

[Petros]

Two years ago we bought a '96 Ford E350 (1-ton van) to tow a travel trailer with, and it has been a real maintance pig. About every 25 k miles I can expect it to need brakes, tires, lower ball joints, rubber suspension bushes, front bearings and seals, alighment, etc. And that is just for the suspension. Although the engine has been relatively good so far, it has needed a few items, including vac lines, thermostat, throttle pos sensor, filters, belts, hoses, etc. To make it worse, getting at the engine is a PIA becasue of the small hood in this van config. I suspect I will have to rebuild the engine soon, it has 220k miles (rebuilt about 120k ago by the previous owners). Fortuantly the trans was rebuilt just before we bought it, otherwise I think it would only have value as a parts car despite the relative good condition of the body and interior.

I hate working on it, I hate having to buy parts for it, and I hate having to put gas in it- about $90 to fill it! (12 mpg typical, 8 mpg with the travel trailer in tow). We spent $1300 in gas on a two week vaction pulling the trailer (though half of that was in Canada where the gas is over $4/gal). I would not even mind the gas milage if it was not such a maintaince pig.

BTW, if the engine is acting up, I will check all the vacuum lines first. fortuantly there are not that many (not nearly many as these old Tercels anyway), but they are very long!

Too bad there is not a more reliable large vehicle for towing and hauling a family around in. I know there are now large import trucks and suvs available, but they are way too expensive, and do not have nearly the passanger nor towing capacity of the Ford van. I would have been happy to get a diesel version, but I have not seen them in passanger vans, only in the utility panel vans.

[takza]

Too bad there is not a more reliable large vehicle for towing and hauling a family around in.

* Go to a library or ???...get maybe a year 2004 copy of Consumer Reports Buying Guide for the year...has about the most reliable reliability ratings around.

Also some decent info here:

http://auto.consumerguide.com/


* Check the EPA mpg ratings

From what I hear...the 300 straight 6 in a Ford van is about the best bet for mpg. Enough power for towing?

I 'd have to guess that gas prices are going to be trending up...best to get prepared?

[Mattel]

Diesel Toyota Landcruisers and Nissan Patrols rule for towing here as they have legendery reliability. Not sure if they're imported to North America. We get a few of the Dodge Rams and F250's(?). but there only bought by cashed up Bogans as they cost up to $100,000 AUS

Me and 4 mates hired a Landcruiser for 2 weeks and it was a lot cheeper than maintaining and registering a big rig once you factor in depreciation. Not sure if you can do that there?

[Typrus]

I'm telling you.... Ford Excursion.....

We regularly tow our 6k boat and 8k travel trailer with no issue. 16-20mpg putzing around, 12-16 towing is typical.
We have replaced brakes once. At 105k was when we did it.

110 or so nowadays. Factory everything. Shocks, alt, batt, tires, brakes.... Thats it for replacements other than things like bulbs. Tranny still pulls hard with minimal slippage. axles are fine, bushings fine, bearings fine. We love it.

As long as its essentially stock, it'll be great.
Mods for ours? Resistance mod for the injectors, 4" exhaust with Aero-Turbine muffler, and K&N filter.

[Petros]

We looked at the Excursion, it does not hold as many passangers (our van seats 15!). But I agree the Excursion makes a great towing rig.

16-20 mpg? Never has anyone calaimed that high we talked to about it, what engine do you have? Is the exhaust and K&N filter the only mods? How much of the exhaust system did you replace? That might be worth the expense.

Also they cost much more than the passenger van. We only paid $2900 for the van (it did have a lot of miles on it, but body and seats were in good shape. Also we considered we did not need the 4wd for traveling and the occational use, so that also saves some cost and weight. I think our van and the Excursion have similar chassis, we have the 351 v-8.

When comes time to rebuild the engine I am going to make a few improvements, perhaps change the cam, clean up the ports and raise the CR slightly, all to improve the low end torque and improve the economy. I wonder what induction systems are available that would improve the economy, or do you suppose simply changing to a K&N would make a noticable differance?

[CASE]

I hate working on it, I hate having to buy parts for it, and I hate having to put gas in it- about $90 to fill it! (12 mpg typical, 8 mpg with the travel trailer in tow). We spent $1300 in gas on a two week vaction pulling the trailer (though half of that was in Canada where the gas is over $4/gal). I would not even mind the gas milage if it was not such a maintaince pig.

Too bad there is not a more reliable large vehicle for towing and hauling a family around in. I know there are now large import trucks and suvs available, but they are way too expensive,

Friend of mine's got one of those 4Runners that opens into the back like a Bronco or Pathfinder, would make a great family hauler.

Our great country pretty much stopped making cars sometime in the early 80's- I'm not saying American cars are no good, but I've never seen one made after 1980 that was worth it's asking price. I still miss my '73OLDS whenever I floor an economy vehicle and wait for it to do something.But The last American car I refused to work on was an 86 Dodge that looked like it was made 10 years earlier, except that most the parts were stamped out of sheet metal, and only the block was cast. I was putting off replacing the water pump, till payday- my wife overheated it and immediateley pulled over-THIS ONE OVERHEATING was enough to TRASH THE SEALS! I saw coolant and oil mixing, full ash trays, bent antenna-time to pay someone to haul it to the junkyard!
I'm scared of newer American cars now, they're like KIAs with half the life span

[keith]

Well, the last American car I had until 02 was a 78 Mercury Zephyr, it wasn't bad for its day. Now Its all Japanese except for my 02 Saturn.

On the good side, it gets 38 mpg (I track it on an excel spreadsheet, 37.85 to be exact), I have done only the minimum PM, less sometimes, its only had two scheduled maintenance repairs (intake manifold gasket and PS rear wheel bearing) and no unscheduled maintenance repairs. It went 102k miles before the first scheduled repair, 84k on the original tires and 138k on the original brakes. It has the best overall reliability of any vehicle I've ever had.

In the negative, its not very comfortable, I had to rip out part of the center console to have room for my right knee and had to get a lumbar support for any trip over one hour. Its noisier than all but my 79 Dodge Colt and my 97 Nissan PU.

[Typrus]

7.3L Powerstroke.

[takza]

On the good side, it gets 38 mpg (I track it on an excel spreadsheet, 37.85 to be exact),

Check here for a simple way to increase mpg with a Saturn?

http://www.mpgresearch.com/viewtopic.ph ... hlight=iat

You should be able to see 45-50 mpg mixed?


Or check this out:

http://www.gassavers.org/garage/view/188

He thinks he is seeing 170 hp and 50 mpg mixed. Also uses some driving techniques for the real high mpg.

[thebigbread]

7.3L Powerstroke.

heh.. imo the only good ford engine

my dad has one in his '99 F450. think of it: 35 miles to work & back home 5 days a week, then a extra 50-300 miles each day to get to the job site. when i last checked the odometer, i believe it read about 220,000 miles, & as far as i know, nothing has been done to the engine outside of regular maintence.

& i love the sound of it roaring down the highway

[Typrus]

Bwa-hahaha
I love the thing. 4" downtube-back. No cat on it. Aero-Turbine muffler. It sounds great.

However....

Our 99.5 F-250 with the 7.3L has a bunch of goodies done to it. Including but not limited to- better turbo compressor housing and wheel (Wicked Wheel) that still surges and chirps (we are looking at the H2E next) 4" turbo-back Bassani Stainless Steel exhaust, no kitty and a Ceramic-coated downpipe with 6" or so chrome turn-down tip (basically the top of a semi-tractor stack cut off and attached) Tymar Intake which consists of a HUGE filter and 5" tubing to turbo intake (the filter has got to be 6-8" diameter and maybe 12-20" long?? I really need to measure it....) Fuel-feed fix (fuel feeds at front and back of fuel logs) higher pressure fuel supply (from 50 to 70PSI to the injectors)

Lots of other goodies including a BTS Transmission (best Ford transmissions on the planet) and a 4" lift.

Now THAT thing.... The turbo SCREAMS on it. With the chip in, and depending on setting 1, 2, 3, or 4, it'll pull anywhere from 20-28PSI boost. Chirping/surging LOUDLY at every shift and occassionally surging on the way up. We need a bigger turbo.....

I love that thing...... 125k or so on the engine. No internal work done by us, and none we're aware of ever.

Last we knew it pulled 400-something HP and in the area of 1200ft/lb torque.
But the chips been acting up so we pulled it.... It feels so slow now...... And with only 14PSI boost, and having to fight hard to reach that.... We've probably butchered that poor turbo.

[splatterdog]

I used to love them. Back when they were actually American cars, and made out of metal. Sadly gas prices prohibit me from regularly using a pig, That's where the terc's come in. I still have a 76 F250 crew cab with a 460 for fun and hauling along with my 91 burb. My first ford pickup(79 2wd) got almost 20mpg though.

I have a prime example of "american" crap in my garage right now. A 2000 durango with 160k on it. Timing guides disintegrated and the right upper chain(3 total) jumped off sprocket. Fortunately most of the ground up metal debris is aluminum and no bent valves. However, just the cost of the parts is more than I spent on all 3 of my terc's. $500 just for the 15 piece chain set from the Zone! Almost 150 in gaskets too. Even the misc. o-rings and seals that had to come from the dealer was almost 70. Ouch! Stay away from the 4.7, that's for sure. At least it wasn't a sludge motor, that seems to be a problem on these also

A vehicle only has to be 70% US made to call it that. I have seen Thailand wiring sub harnesses on 05 and newer Dodges. Most other harnesses on all the domestics typically have mexican harnesses. The "hecho en mexico" is all over everything now. I never thought I would learn some second language by fixing cars!

If you want to laugh/be disgusted(US residents) go check out some new domestic cars and look for the "vehicle parts content" sticker. That is if they don't hide or remove them. Toyota proudly puts them in plain view on the drivers window. As I am usually going in the back door at car dealers I had never seen one of these until a couple years ago. A salesman and I had a laugh when I asked if the domestics did this as it would be quite embarrassing. I am amazed that 70% is met by any of the domestics.

Not trying to put down the countries that supply the other 30%, but do you want car parts on your US car that come from the places that supply happy meal toys?

I've had people look at me like I'm a traitor when I suggest a honda or toyota for a reliable car. They asked. Blame the car makers. Or better yet, buy that domestic. Broken cars pay my bills.

Don't even get me started on European junk.....