Engine/Tranny swap for our LeMons car

Mr. Wiggles · Post by **Mr. Wiggles** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:53 am

We'll check those things, of course. But we're also going ahead with the feasibility study of a 22RE swap. Everything is measured, now. The 3AC is 22 inches from the front of the pulley to the back of the block, with 2 inches between the radiator and the pulley, and 2.5 inches between the back of the block and the firewall. The 22RE is 24 inches from the front of the pulley to the back of the block. That means it will fit, I think, though custom motor mounts might be in order.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:07 pm

You need to take into account this- You are going to have to lower that engine. There just isn't a straight shot back from where it sists now to accomadate a RWD config. It'll have to be lowered a good bit too. You'll have to take that into account. I haven't measured it all out.

Just more stuff to consder is all.,

Mr. Wiggles · Post by **Mr. Wiggles** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:21 pm

We've thought about that, but without having a front differential under there, it shouldn't be to big a deal to drop it 6 inches or more.

Post by **Petros** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:19 pm

Going to a 4ac would be an easy upgrade with little weight penalty, if you are going to go 2wd why stay with the 4x4 Tercel? Switch to a Celica or something more suited to the track, you can probably get an old, ugly one at an auction for about $200. Even a Corrola handles better than a tercel, and has more power.

If there is a pull-a-part or pick-your-part near you a trans will only cost you about $50. They are reliable but their life limit appears to be about 250k miles, some get up to 300k out of them. Driving 4wd on a track would be hard on it. I would find an '85 or newer one to get the 4.1:1 ratio (if you have an '84 or old tercel you will need to change out the rear axle ratio so it matches). this lower final ratio would be better on the track. Both the Corolla and the Celica (RWD) have the lower final drive ratio alreadly (another reason to switch to the Celica).

If you are going to rebuild the engine I would do these mods: hone the cyls and put in new rings with flat top pistons (from Sealed Power, only about $25 each), get a reground mild performance cam shaft from Delta Cams in Tacoma WA for only $39 (exchange , plus shipping) both will help the power band. Resurface the head, ground the valves (clean-up and enlarge the ports if you are so equipped), consider replacing the exhaust valves. Remove weight off the flywheel, and rebalance (balance the whole engine if you have the it in the budget). Also advance the timing to about 10 or 12 deg.BTDC and run premium fuel in it. Make sure the carb and everything else is running properly, with an open exhaust it should put out about 85 to 90 hp or more.

looks like fun, Good luck.

Mr. Wiggles · Post by **Mr. Wiggles** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:41 am

We went with the 4WD Tercel origionally because it was about all we could find in the price range. Now, it's simply a matter of revenge. Well, that plus the car is already stripped, has the rollcage installed, etc.

We may be able to pickup an 86 4WD in town that's been in a front ender for real cheap. The radiator is toast, but we swapped our own out for one from a V6 Camry a while ago, so it's no big deal. If we use it, then we have the spare rear end, and we could drop the motor in after we've modded it per your advice. And we really do appreciate your advice - thank you.

Post by **Petros** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 10:36 pm

I just visited the web site, that looks like a kick in the rear. This is what fun racing should be about, low buget with unlimited tweaks.

As well as working as a mechanic, I have worked for several racing teams, including one fully sponsored professional factory team, and I have a mechanical engineering degree. If you want to know more low budget tweaks, I know a lot of them. feel free to PM or ask me what you want within this forum (just in case there are few other people that want know too).

If you convert to 2wd it would save a lot of weight, I would go for RWD since it is better for track use than FWD. I would not go with the 22R engine (though it is a good engine) it adds weight, the 4ac would be better, more power and no weight penalty (the same tweaks apply to the 4ac as I posted before, plus strip off the emissions junk).

Since wheels tires and brakes do not count toward the $500 limit, consider getting 14" (or 15"?) wheels, and switching over to the vented discs from the later tercs and echos (they will bolt up without too much effort, you need a spacer shim), the vented discs are only about $27 ea new from autozone.

Also the rear anti sway bar from the "83-"88 Celica GTS is bigger and bolts right in to the Terc rear axle (get one from a u-serve wrecker cheap). The 5 speed from that car will bolt up I think to give you a non-4wd RWD drive-train to fit in the terc and would likely be more durable than the turc trans too.

It would be fun to help build a car like that, too bad you are so far from where I live.

Good luck.

Mr. Wiggles · Post by **Mr. Wiggles** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:44 pm

After much discussion (and pulling the old tranny), it seems we're keeping a Tercel tranny in it, but we're undecided about which motor to use still. We'll take photos of whatever we do, though.

Speaking of photos, you can see our car in the 24 Hours of LeMons article in the new Car and Driver.

CASE · Post by **CASE** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:15 am

did you say you took off the exhaust? your probably losing some horses right there. I took the exhaust off several GM trailertown drag cars, but I would think it's a terrible idea on a 3a-3ac, you can get a little clearance just by cinching the exhaust pipes up against the floor, for racing, the cat converter is chuckable. for weight, you might look at losing glass and doors, they're heavier than they look.
the 22re superTerc is something I've always wished was possible, kind of like putting a 455v8 in a Subaru Justy- don't think it's doable is it?I think it's really cool that you did that race though, better luck next year!

Mr. Wiggles · Post by **Mr. Wiggles** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:30 pm

Yes, we removed the exhaust just before the cat, so that the pipe exits out just under the cat heat shield. Though for our new Mad Max theme, we're thinking about routing it up the passenger side A pillar like a Kenworth.

We did remove just about everything from the car, including the inside sheetmetal from the doors. Our cage didn't weigh too much, so we're still coming out ahead. Though, with the crossbow turret we're going to put on top, I think we'll have to remove the rear hatch completely to be able to break even on the weight.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:12 pm

wow. lol.

I've done measurements and I'm fairly sure you could stuff a 350 in a Terc.

Anything is possible with a little money and some welding hookups.

thebigbread · Post by **thebigbread** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:42 pm

im suprised no one suggested this..

what about a 7AGE, a 4age engine with a 7afe block?

heres an article on it: http://www.club4ag.com/faq%20and%20tech ... d%207A.htm

shogun · Post by **shogun** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:27 pm

imho, do as i did, i put underdrive pulleys, weber carb and head work, a bigger radiator, i would advise to get a good oil cooler, since the oil temps tend to rise above 140 after a lot of hard racing, do the paseo swap and get good pads also a good brake fluid, that is key, as for exhaust use headers make your own or by a 4ac header, stock manifold has a lot of back pressure, if you cant find one 3asu exhaust manifold is the way to go, its a 421 design, and drop the 21 part, and use 11 inch secondaries, to a 2.5 inch colector, after that its your call, glass pack and an elbow works grat, get an electric pump on endurance races the fuel pump goes bad, and lastly rev match on downshifts and dont stomp on the clutch

oohh i wish i could race on the lemmons race

CASE · Post by **CASE** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:29 am

Mr. Wiggles wrote:Yes, we removed the exhaust just before the cat, so that the pipe exits out just under the cat heat shield. Though for our new Mad Max theme, we're thinking about routing it up the passenger side A pillar like a Kenworth.

We did remove just about everything from the car, including the inside sheetmetal from the doors. Our cage didn't weigh too much, so we're still coming out ahead. Though, with the crossbow turret we're going to put on top, I think we'll have to remove the rear hatch completely to be able to break even on the weight.

-BADASS!!!is it flexpipe, stovepipe?- oh yeah, you can fix that idle with the hot idle screw-second one in on the back

Aldavr6 · Post by **Aldavr6** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:09 pm

What about a 2RZ-FE or a 3RZ-FE from a tacoma? Looks shorter than a 22RE to me.

Mr. Wiggles · Post by **Mr. Wiggles** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:23 pm

Unfortunately, time runs short and the parts supply is even shorter. We're still having trouble getting a rebuilt transmission assembly. When we pulled the old one, though, we found Pick n Pull markings all over it, so this may be part of the reason for it's demise.

Tercel4WD.com

Engine/Tranny swap for our LeMons car

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