Timing belt replacement nightmare

tercel4wdrules · Post by **tercel4wdrules** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:25 pm

I'm not very happy right now. I can't get the crank pulley off because I can't get the nut off of the pulley. I've tried almost everything. I stuffed rope in the #1 cylinder and the thing kept on moving. I attached the puller to see if I could hold the pulley that way, but it's too weak and it seems like I'm going to break the bolts before I get anywhere with the nut. I put the car in EL in 4wd, and the engine was still moving backwards. I bought a pipe to fit over my ratchet and see if I could get the starter to do the work with a towel protecting the fender and I turned the key. Nothing. I couldn't move the nut with just holding the pulley by hand. I sprayed WD-40 yesterday before I left the car.

Are there any other methods I can use? The only other method I was told by a mechanic is to tow the car to his shop and he'll use an impact wrench to loosen the nut for me. This means I have to push the car for three blocks and then another three on the way back. And an impact wrench is out of the question for me; they're about $80.

I'm afraid that if I stuff rope in the cylinder and the engine spins the opposite way, that damage will be done or that I'm going to bend something.

The oil leak which I thought was the camshaft oil seal turned out to be a very leaky valve cover gasket. I don't understand why there were two big globs of RTV silicone by the front of the cover, which is where the majority of the oil was coming from. The camshaft oil seal has a tiny bit of oil around the inside diameter, that's why I think there's nothing wrong with the seal.

I have a strong feeling of slapping the thing back together and having my dad drive it back from my Godparent's driveway and just let it sit.

Don Jorgensen · Post by **Don Jorgensen** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 6:10 pm

I have delt with both issues you are dealing with. Sorry for the poker pun. First one is the crankshaft pully bolt. I did not have an impact wrench. I blocked the wheels so the car couldn't move. Each wheel had a chock. I believe I used first gear and also set the parking brake. You could have someone stand on the brake pedal. It came off with using a big cheater bar. Don't give up.

This last Tercel came to me with an oil leak that had been diagnosed by numerous mechanics....I read the old service tickets the owner supplied. All the reports said oil leak from front main seal, rear main seal, transmission seals...Phooey. I changed the valve cover gasket right away and the 1/2 moon rubber cam hole in the rear of the head as well. I have driven some 5,000 miles since this work and the only oil I have dripping is when the car has been driven a long distance and the warm built up deposits weep a drip now and then. I have not power washed the engine and compartment down yet. The garage floor tells the story. Only a drip here and there. I also believe the only reason the clutch went out was the large amount of oil that previously seeped down onto the clutch.

keith · Post by **keith** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 6:14 pm

Its very easy to get the bolt off. You do need a long breaker bar, 16" at least. Put the socket on a short (2-3") extension and jam the breaker bar in the frame somewhere. Then just bump the starter. The smallest fraction of a second will break it loose.

Note: this does not work on Honda's, their engines turn the other direction.

Note 2: you do not need to remove the small bolts in the front pulley, just the 19 (or 17 in some) mm in the center.

tercel4wdrules · Post by **tercel4wdrules** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 6:28 pm

keith wrote:Its very easy to get the bolt off. You do need a long breaker bar, 16" at least. Put the socket on a short (2-3") extension and jam the breaker bar in the frame somewhere. Then just bump the starter. The smallest fraction of a second will break it loose.

Note: this does not work on Honda's, their engines turn the other direction.

Note 2: you do not need to remove the small bolts in the front pulley, just the 19 (or 17 in some) mm in the center.

I tried this with a pipe over my ratchet, does it make a difference if I use an actual breaker bar that will cost me $25? I bumped the starter three times (one at a time). The first time the ratchet fell out. The second and third time it stayed put, but the starter couldn't move it. The pipe I'm using is probably over 24" long. There are small bolts in the center? My pulley doesn't have those (or I didn't see them). My center bolt is 19mm.

Mickey_D · Post by **Mickey_D** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 6:30 pm

Another option (not recommended, but it is an option) is to pull the starter and see if you can jam a prybar into a balancing hole in the flywheel.

Another one I've heard about but never seen done is to somehow bind the two ong sides of the timing chain together.

Something I'd try is if you have a sloping driveway is to put the socket on with a cheater bar against the frame. Put the car in 5th and let it roll downhill forwards and let the clutch out on it.

keith · Post by **keith** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 7:41 pm

I'd hit the starter a few more times, it's always worked for me on the first hit. You can also remove the little plate at the back of the engine, the clutch inspection plate, and jam a screwdriver in there and locking the flywheel from moving. Then use a big breaker bar on the bolt. this will take two people, one holding the screwdriver and the other on the ratchet extension.

tercel4wdrules · Post by **tercel4wdrules** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 7:49 pm

I feel kind of stupid and helpless gazing at the offending pulley and realize that I'm running out of plausible options. But not as dumb as when my friend and I were trying to removing the valve cover with the seal washers still in place. "Hey, why won't it come off?"

I need to clarify this, does anything need to be put on the valve cover gasket, should I get the opportunity to get this far?

I would replace the cam oil seal, but I just bought a 1/2" drive click-type torque wrench from Autozone. It only goes from 10-150 lb/ft of torque and the cam bearing cap requires 9 lb/ft. Then I have to see if my weenie-self can handle the 80 lb/ft for the crank pulley bolt.

Maybe if I spray it with PBBlaster it might make it easier...

I was contemplating jamming a screwdriver in between the holes for the cam pulley, but then I thought that most likely the belt will take a lot of stress and possibly break. Not that it really matters, but I don't think that this approach is safe.

If this is a nightmare, I can't imagine how the clutch and motor mount replacement is going to be like.

The timing belt tensioner looks worn, so it's a good thing I'm replacing it as well as the spring and the guide.

The driveway isn't slanted, so letting it roll forwards and popping the clutch won't work.

The manual states to turn the crankshaft in a clockwise fashion, but will something get damaged if it turns in a counterclockwise fashion?

I remember that I had a similar problem when I replaced the fuel pump. I couldn't get the bolts off, they were too tight. After heaving and huffing (and waving my fist at it) I finally was able to loosen them. I just had a regular ratchet and I'm a relatively weak person, so maybe if I keep trying it will come off.

A mechanic told me it was the cam oil seal, but I was still doubtful because there was oil seeping from the very top. But now my suspicion has been cleared.

Before all of this drama, I wanted another Tercel, but now I don't. Not until I actually have my own driveway and another car. I had to walk to get distilled water, which was a pain to find. Most supermarkets around here don't carry it, not even Wal-Mart!

Post by **Petros** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:14 pm

I have had this problem before. the best way I think is to remove the starter and engage the flywheel teeth with a pry bar (having a helper do this is useful). Put penetrating oil on it and also carefully heat the pully and nut (it will sofen any goo caught in the threads). Use a new socket if yours is worn, and a cheater bar on the socket wrench.

I have also made a removal tool/lever bar out of a 4 foot long steel square tube. Drill a hole large enough to get a socket extension through it, and two smaller holes to match the 2 of the 4 bolt holes on the front around the egdes of the pully (these holes mount an auxliary drive pully for A/C option, if the pully is in place it needs to be removed to get to these holes). You have to put the socket on the center nut before you bolt on the removal tool. Then with the removal tool bolted in place tight you can really heave on the socket wrench. One bonus is this tool will hold the socket in place on the center bolt. I happened to have a piece of 3/4" x 2" square tube, and found long enough bolts to use to hold the pully, but even buying the tube and longer bolts should not cost more than about $5 from a scrap yard. It took me about an hour of messing around to make the removal tool. But I have used it 3 or 4 times since on two different cars.

good luck.

shogun · Post by **shogun** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:14 pm

tap the bolt a couple of times so i gets un stuck and use an impact gun or a wrench with a hammer

takza · Post by **takza** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:43 am

tercel4wdrules wrote:I tried this with a pipe over my ratchet, does it make a difference if I use an actual breaker bar that will cost me $25? I bumped the starter three times (one at a time). The first time the ratchet fell out. The second and third time it stayed put, but the starter couldn't move it. The pipe I'm using is probably over 24" long. There are small bolts in the center? My pulley doesn't have those (or I didn't see them). My center bolt is 19mm.

* battery needs a charge?

* you could remove the starter and put a medium sized c-clamp on the flywheel thru the opening. You don't really remove it...just the bolts and let it hang on a coat hanger wire...batt negative cable OFF.

* might work with a quality ratchet...main thing is to NOT round off the bolt hex or flats! 6 point is safest.

Mechanics work can be difficult and frustrating...and you can get a bit depressed when you run into SNAGS. Don't grab a hammer...THINK about the problem.

Main thing IS THIS....take your time (the car's not going anywhere), do it right, and don't make the kind of mistake that costs you a lot to FIX.

keith · Post by **keith** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:01 am

Talk about going from the frying pan to the fire. If you think the tercel is difficult to work on, be glad you don't have something else. The Tercel is one of the easiest cars there is to work on. Anything made by GM tends to be the most difficult. I had to pull the engine on my daughters old Celebrity to change the starter and the power steering pump. I had to change the intake manifold gasket on my Saturn last year. It looked pretty easy, but a few subtle things the GM engineers did made it a real nightmare.

As complex as the Tercel is, I'm amazed at how easy it is to work on. BTW, if you had a Honda, you could not do a timing belt at home. It requires very specialized tools.

Keep at it though. The first time you do any job, it will be very difficult, but you will learn. When you get done, the feeling of accomplishment that you will feel can't be bought.

TreeKiller · Post by **TreeKiller** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:00 am

What you need right now is the perfect cheer... or maybe a theme song. Get a couple buddies together and be prepared to follow the advice these guys are throwing at you. Then right before you get down on this thing do a cheer or play a theme song that gets the addrenaline going. Then tackle that beast like a superhero at a comic book convention. You can do it!

tercel4wdrules · Post by **tercel4wdrules** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:39 pm

(waves fist in the air)... Oh crap! New day, new opportunities, right? I wish...

I woke up early, quite enthusiastic to see if I would be able to remove the nut. I went and bought PBBlaster. I sprayed the nut twice and let it sit for a few minutes. I tapped it with a hammer and then attached the socket and ratchet, then proceeded to whack it with a hammer. I was careful, but don't worry takza I'm not going to use the hammer anymore. It still wouldn't budge. I took a break and then went to my mechanic and told him the problem. He said that he'll come over with his special tool and help me remove the nut. I told him I would try bumping the starter one last time.

I did the starter bumping ritual - attaching the 19mm socket, the ratchet with the long pipe over it, and the towel protecting the fender. I hooked up the NEG on the battery and hopped in the car. I turned the key to bump the starter and then I saw the pipe move and heard something fall out. I thought something had broken. I look over and the ratchet was missing, then I saw it on the floor and it was broken!! Then I checked to see if it had loosened at all by just trying to move it with the socket by hand. Nothing. Now I have to buy another $15 Craftsman ratchet to replace the one that broke. This is getting to be very irritating and expensive.

I know that compared to other cars, the Tercel is a breeze, that's why I decided to "try" to fix it and learn in the process. But apparently everything has been working against me. Working alone doesn't make it any better. However, I like a good challenge but this one is a little too much on the first try. I'll just wait for Saturday and see what happens, hopefully everything goes fine. If I had the time (and a drill) I would try Petros's tool, but I don't have the time or a drill. And I have plenty of Calculus homework I should be working on...

Thanks to all for your suggestions!

Here are some pictures for your viewing enjoyment:

Post by **ARCHINSTL** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:31 pm

Well - and I DO NOT mean to be facetious...
You did learn an important lesson, never to be forgotten, that rachets are not to be used where a breaker bar (non-ratcheting long solid handle) should be used. They are not intended to be that strong.

However, since it is a Craftsman, you should be able to take it back to Sears and get a new one gratis - just tell them that "It broke." Sears stands behind its Craftsman stuff, regardless of the reason for the breakage.
I was always embarrassed to take back some of the screwdrivers that had been used - ummm - inappropriately, but one of my staffers had no shame, so that was in his job description...
Tom M.

keith · Post by **keith** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:09 pm

As pointed out, Sears will replace a Craftsman ratchet free. Then take the $15 and get a good breaker bar, you can get one just as good at AutoZone for less money and still have the lifetime guarantee. You may even get one cheaper still at Walmart.

Do NOT wrap the handle in a towel, or anything else. You are buffering the blow too much. I jam the breaker bar handle against the swaybar.

BTW, I've broken breaker bars too.