Front Ball Joints

jammin1911 · Post by **jammin1911** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 2:31 pm

I suspect that my front ball joints are shot (I havent checked yet, but I get some nasty understeer when i hit bumps during corners and lots of nasty noises heh)

I'm curious what replacements are common to use, oem replacements, moog, etc.

Thanks!!

PS - An estimated cost would be nice too

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 3:15 pm

try http://www.rockauto.com for prices.

I can't see them costing too much, $20-30? each. simple to do aswell, just need to jack up the front end, support the lower control arm with a jack, unbolt, lower the arm down, replace, and bolt it all up again.

keith · Post by **keith** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:01 pm

I got mine at Autozone, easy to replace, but you do need a small puller or pickle fork. I prefer the puller, a GP two arm works fine.

I replaced mine because I saw a spring looking thing sticking out, turned out to be the spring that holds the bottom of the rubber boot against the ball joint housing. The ball joint itself was like new after 20 years and 300k miles. I had to replace the inner and outer tie rod ends on one side because they had frozen together and couldn't be adjusted. The ball joints in them were just as good as new too.

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:24 pm

i replaced my inner and outer tie rods, really made no significant differane over the 20+ yr old units i took out.

except for the right inner tie rod that had excess play due to a curb i hit in the snow years ago.

keith · Post by **keith** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:13 pm

Let me tell you the best way to check steering linkage, including ball joints, is to have someone rock the steering wheel back and forth while you inspect the joints. Do this with the car on the ground. Anything that has excessive play will readily apparent.

What you can't tell from this that could be causing your symptoms is worn control arm bushings or worn sway bar bushings. The sway bar doubles as your strut rods. These generally don't wear out to the point of causing handling problems, they just harshen the ride when they get old.

takza · Post by **takza** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:51 am

The parts on the ends of the swaybars can wear and rust.

keith · Post by **keith** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:17 am

I misspoke a little. The control arm bushings don't usually affect handling, just ride. The sway bar bushings can affect handling as they control the castor.

shogun · Post by **shogun** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:35 am

yes they do, beleive me, when you have shot bushings alignment changes a lot, so you loose handling performance, it could also increase gas mileage

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:34 am

Worn out anything in the suspension and steering affects handling, ride, and stability. Simple as that.

Our balljoints, half-loaded, are to have ZERO perceptible movement. They can't be fully loaded or fully unloaded. Has to be at half.

The MR2 has the exact same balljoints.

If you can, get some with grease zerks. The MOOG's usually have them, but I'm not 100% on ours having it.

My old, rusted together tie-rods are pretty much fine. I'll wind up doing them for the sake of being able to do an alignment. Have the parts, just need a new steering rack so I'm waiting to do it.

The Dry Bump test is where you check for steering play. On dry, level ground, with the engine off but the wheel unlocked and tires straight ahead, gently wiggle the wheel back and forth. The purpose is to see how much the steering wheel moves before the wheels themselves move. If there is no free-play, you're fine in terms of ball SOCKET condition. The more free-play, the worse they are. ENGINE HAS TO BE OFF if you have power steering.

The FSM describes a way to test the balljoints.
Once you get it unbolted from the knuckle, it'll be hard to get it out of the control arm. Its a press-fit, so some getle tapping from a bronze mallet should get it out, but a specialty tool will do the same. Just don't use anything but a plastic, rubber, or bronze mallet. You'll screw stuff up.

keith · Post by **keith** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:36 pm

Worn out anything in the suspension and steering affects handling, ride, and stability. Simple as that.

No its not that simple. Control arm bushings are captive bushings. The control arms do not change there geometry because of these bushings, but they can make the ride harsher. Because they are captive, they are real difficult to change. Thats why you rarely see anyone change them. I did that once, and believe me it will be a cold day in death valley before I do it again.

You are right about the ball joints, but you should have included no vertical movement either. Its vertical play that is dangerous and usually causes accidents. I would not pound out the ball joints with any hammer unless I was going to replace them. You can damage the threads by hitting them, you can also cause a hairline fracture in the shaft that can separate at the wrong moment.

When I test a vehicle's front end, I do it with the engine on when it has power steering. I don't don't see why you feel it has to be off. I think you got some misinformation.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:25 am

I think I got some 4 double Master ACE certified tech advice type information. But what could they know?

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 3:03 am

the front bar is actually called a "stabalizer bar" as it controls sway, and keeps the lower control arms steady.

on my tercel the rubber stabalizer bar that holds it to the control arm wore away to nothing, leaving a white nylon donut that was one surrounded by rubber and it handled like absolute crap, bumps were extremeley scary.

had to get new ones from toyota, cost in the neighborhood above $100

takza · Post by **takza** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:03 am

keith wrote:
You are right about the ball joints, but you should have included no vertical movement either. Its vertical play that is dangerous and usually causes accidents. I would not pound out the ball joints with any hammer unless I was going to replace them. You can damage the threads by hitting them, you can also cause a hairline fracture in the shaft that can separate at the wrong moment.

That's why it's difficult to test balljoints. You can have a loose one that seems OK till you hit a bump...then they can slop up/down/sideways. They are usually under pressure from the cars springs and/or the weight of the car.

If you soak rusted tierod threads in PBBlaster or similar for a week or so...they should come apart.

As far as looseness...since the tie rods are nearer to the pivot point than the tread of the tire...even 1/16" slop translates into close to 1/8" at the tires tread.

keith · Post by **keith** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:07 am

If you soak rusted tierod threads in PBBlaster or similar for a week or so...they should come apart.

Tried that. It wasn't a rust problem. When my sister had the car, she took it to a mechanic that used to (still does actually) ride Harley's with a well known group of riders. He was a great mechanic except for one thing, when he tightened a bolt or nut down, it would take a large breaker bar to get it loose again. He clamped down the tie rods to the point that it distorted them. I tried a pair of 18" pipe wrenches and they would not budge. The sleeves were dug into the threads. Tried a torch too.

One test I use for ball joints is to jack up the front end until the tire just clears the ground. Then I slip a shovel under the tire and pry it up and down to check for vertical play in the ball joint. It has worked for severely worn ball joints, not sure if it works for moderately worn joints though.

keith · Post by **keith** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:14 am

Typrus wrote:I think I got some 4 double Master ACE certified tech advice type information. But what could they know?

You think. Next time you ask them, clarify if you are talking about steering linkage or the steering box itself. To check for play in the steering box, the engine should be off, but for tie rod ends or, in non rack and pinion systems, idler arms and Pitman arms, the engine can be running.