Busted my Axle?

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sacwac
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Post by sacwac »

I think either one or both of my front left axles are broken now.

A couple of days ago, I noticed a tap tap tap tap tap rythmic to the engine revs, and it would only make that noise when decelerating in gear. So, only when the clutch pedal was out, and the car in 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th AND I let my foot off the gas would I get the noise. It didn't make the noise in reverse, not that I could hear.

But now, it makes the tap tap tap all the time, clutch in or out. It also goes kuck kuck....kuck kuck kuck.... like a bicycle chain slipping gear teeth.

The shifting action feels smooth, as does the clutch....

Broken axle? front differential? tranny?
GTSSportCoupe
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Post by GTSSportCoupe »

I think if the axle was actually totally broken, your car wouldn't move at all in 2wd. Because of the open diff, the shaft with the least resistance will turn (ie. the broken one).

It sounds to me like one or more of your CV joints are toast.
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sacwac
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Post by sacwac »

Ok, so I got the car up on jacks, and noticed a few things:

The right and left sides of the differential leak oil, depending on what side of the car you have up off the ground. The left axle has popped out of the diff, it's out by about 1/2 an inch (13mm). When I turn the left wheel by hand, it rotates smoothly, then stops. It gets stuck on something, then clunks as I force it free by spinning the wheel more. And during this clunking action, I can see the axle popping out then back into the diff case by a couple mm.

The car is not driveable anymore. Good thing it's at my home.

Can't wait to tear those axles out, and get down and dirty!
takza
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Post by takza »

<span style='color:blue'>Can't wait to tear those axles out, and get down and dirty!</span>

You should not encourage this kind of attitude.... :D :D :D :D :D :ph34r:

If you happen to still have original Toyota axles...you'll want to be nice to them and only reluctantly go the R&R route.

The oil leaking is probably the seals...need to check your trans oil level.

The axles are held in there by circular rings that snap into grooves in the axle carriers or whatever...sometimes these just pop out of place. You could try just pushing it back in and see if it stays there. Should feel/hear a slight "click".

You could pry it all the way out (need to remove the outboard end) and check to be sure the splines aren't chewed up...find another ring and put it back in...just be sure it snaps into place pretty well. You might just luck out!

But maybe the end broke off the shaft....if it did you might have to fish the end out of there.

Also might want to drain some trans oil into a clean pan right under the diff to see if you get any metal fragments (if there's a plug right under there..I forget). You'll probably want to drain & change the oil anyway.
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sacwac
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Post by sacwac »

I started working on my little problem here, and check out what came out of my diff drain plug (along with the oil):

<a href='http://mike.mounty.com/pics/part.jpg' target='_blank'>http://mike.mounty.com/pics/part.jpg</a>

There were also tons of teeny metal bits, much finer than sand. Like a metallic paint was mixed in with the oil.

Can the diff be serviced without having to drop the whole transmission? The diff cover will come off, but in order to pull the ring gear out, I'd probably need to remove the engine under cover, stabilizer, stiffener plates, and oil pan.

I hope I can remove the gears inside the diff, then I would temporarily plug the axle holes, put it into 4wd, and test the car with rwd only... Would give me an idea if there is anything else wrong with my drive system.
takza
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Post by takza »

That chunk looks like one of the two gear tooth edges that came out of mine after the bozo drove it home and forced it into third...it had trouble shifting cause it had sat for so long. You've chipped a trans gear...if it doesn't pop out of gear...I wouldn't worry about it.

* What the hey kind of camera do you have there guy????????? How did you get that picture????

The fine metal MIGHT be a moly additive that someone put in the oil. I have some in mine...it looks that way. You do want to check your drain plugs and look at and clean up the metal collected on the magnets.

IMO, you are looking for trouble. <_< Which is what mechanics do I guess. :blink:

I think your best bet is to fully pull the axle that has the problem...and if the end of it is OK...go to Toyota for a new ring and just put it back together.

Maybe with a new seal (don't put it in too far or you WILL have problems!)

Then fill with clean oil and roadtest it.
Give a boy a gun-give a biatch a cell phone-and pretty soon you almost got yourself a police state.

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sacwac
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Post by sacwac »

That pic was taken with an Olympus C-740.

By looking at the manual, I should be ok as long as the drive pinion gear isn't broken. All the rest of the stuff can be removed from the front of the diff.

Also, I took lots of time to scan the manual into pdfs this weekend. I'm almost done... Will post it.
Thereminator
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Post by Thereminator »

Sacwac,if you post a "group" of images,it might be best to do it in the "Repair Guide" Sec.,otherwise they may get lost. :unsure:
1984 SR5~Tercel 4wd-6.Spd<br><br>
takza
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Post by takza »

sacwac wrote: By looking at the manual, I should be ok as long as the drive pinion gear isn't broken. All the rest of the stuff can be removed from the front of the diff.
Can't say for sure, but all I think all that happened was that the axle came out and the "noise" you got was just the splines on the shaft slipping past the carrier splines.

Best bet: push the axle back in and if it stays in...drive it a little to see if there are any other problems.

Won't stay in...pull the axle..make sure the old ring is intact...put a new ring on the axle and test drive it.

If OK...then maybe new seals both sides & new oil.

It's the way I'd do it.......worth about 2 cents.

If the ring on the shaft has broken or fell inside...then you might have real problems. If you get into the ring & pinion...you will have to match the pair and reset the lash...chances are you will end up with a noisy diff if you mess with it.

<span style='color:red'>After actually looking at the manuals I have...IF you got that gear chip from the drain under the diff...you do have problems. Not sure if you can get the access cover off the diff with the engine in there.</span>
Give a boy a gun-give a biatch a cell phone-and pretty soon you almost got yourself a police state.

Orwell said: War is peace! Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength...

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sacwac
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Post by sacwac »

ok, so you CAN get the diff cover off without removing the engine. I discovered broken ring gear teeth... So I pulled the whole transmission out. More teeth fell out, here is a pic of them:

<a href='http://mike.mounty.com/pics/transm/IMG_2224.JPG' target='_blank'>http://mike.mounty.com/pics/transm/IMG_2224.JPG</a>

Here is a pic looking into the diff, there are more broken teeth on that ring gear than good ones. The drive pinion (not seen in pic) is in bad shape too, as it has teeth missing over about 1/3 of its circumfrence.

<a href='http://mike.mounty.com/pics/transm/IMG_2225.JPG' target='_blank'>http://mike.mounty.com/pics/transm/IMG_2225.JPG</a>

The inner gears on the diff look good, amazingly enough.

Here are two pics of the transmission sitting on a rack.

<a href='http://mike.mounty.com/pics/transm/IMG_2226.JPG' target='_blank'>http://mike.mounty.com/pics/transm/IMG_2226.JPG</a>
<a href='http://mike.mounty.com/pics/transm/IMG_2227.JPG' target='_blank'>http://mike.mounty.com/pics/transm/IMG_2227.JPG</a>

Pulling the tranny wasn't all that hard, it just took several hours to remove all the rest of the stuff first. There were the usual stuck bolts, hard to reach places, etc. Luckily, I ran into no real difficulties.

So, I do have another tercel, an 86 not an 87. It has the A55F tranny, but probably the same differential. That A55F is WAY broken, and that car is really just my spare parts car. So now I must decide wether or not to take parts from it, or get new parts.

The grease on this tranny is really from another world, TOUGH to clean.
takza
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Post by takza »

What the hey did you do to that differential? :unsure:

Did the end of that axle break off?

I guess that all it would take is one good chip off the pinion though...if you had the pedal down in 1st.

Wonder how much damage was done to the trans with all that hardened metal going back there? That oil circulates faster than you'd think.

I might start taking it a little easier now........ <_<
Give a boy a gun-give a biatch a cell phone-and pretty soon you almost got yourself a police state.

Orwell said: War is peace! Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength...

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sacwac
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Post by sacwac »

I was just driving along, and then I noticed the problems mentioned earlier. It then took a few miles (driving home) such that the car was undriveable. One tooth goes, and it gets sucked into the gear mesh, the whole thing is toast.

Ah the axle.... The thing is stuck pretty good in there. I had to cut the cv boot, and pull the outer axle out. I did this, so that I could get on with dropping the tranny. It had to be replaced anyway.

It looks like the diff is isolated from the tranny, so I don't see how oil could circulate from one to the other. When I drained the oil in the tranny, not only was it a slightly different color, it had absolutely no metal bits. There werent even metal bits on the magnetic drain plugs.

Yeah, take it easy with these cars.... Toyota knew what they were doing when they designed the car, and they didn't design a race car.

At least it was kinda fun to remove the tranny..

Also, on a scale of 1-10 for how dirty a job this is, I'd place it at about 12. I STILL have grease spots on me, and I've spent hours cleaning myself today. The grease is truly from another dimension, probably that of chaos.
takza
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Post by takza »

Don't like the sound of that...you'd think it would take at least a serious shock load to crack a gear tooth.......good reason to keep good oil in there.

I do know when you fill the trans/diff you are supposed to fill from the fill plug (one of 3) that is furtherest back...so there must be movement of oil from the trans to diff...my guess is thru the pinion bearing. Maybe this happened so fast that it didn't have time to circulate?

I'd still worry about the pinion bearing...might replace it.

Maybe put your other diff parts in there and use some cheap motor oil to flush it a couple of times by running it 10-15 miles?

Glad that you are having fun.......... :rolleyes:
Give a boy a gun-give a biatch a cell phone-and pretty soon you almost got yourself a police state.

Orwell said: War is peace! Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength...

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sacwac
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Post by sacwac »

Just got off the phone with Toyota, they want $672 for the ring gear and drive pinion.

CRAZY.

I get the feeling this is going to be a hard to find set of parts.

Yeah, I might just use that other diff... It would probably be best to shell out the couple extra bucks for actual 80w 90 oil and flush the gears out. Especially for the labor and cost intensive parts like these.

Yeah, I've seen that page in the manual about filling with oil from the rear hole only... I guess we'll see when I fill this thing up.

It will probably be a while before I find the parts, or take the ones off the other car.
3A-C Power
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Post by 3A-C Power »

Just find a ring and pinion from a manual transmission Tercel at a junkyard. The front wheel drive gearcase and front differential are the same, and the ring and pinion is the same as long as the ratio is right. I'm pretty sure the front wheel drives had the same gear ratio as the same year 4 wheel drives but will have to check on that. Automatics have a different pinion gear to accomodate the governor which is built in to the pinion gear and shaft. The differential does share the transmission's fluid. I think it would be better to seperate them so you could have a higher viscosity oil in the differential, and some in the transmission that is made especially for manual transmissions to improve shifting. The problem with that is that it looks like the front differential gets fed oil into the pinion shaft bearing from the transmission oil pump, and cutting off that oil supply could cause problems. Most differentials are just splash lubricated.
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