A/C Stuff

[Typrus]

Okay.
My sister has a baby. My sister also has an A/C-less 81 Tercel 2-door. It got about 90 degrees F here today. Its isn't even summer yet.

So, how can I get an A/C system in that car? The best thing I've found so far is an A/C Kit from http://www.ackits.com for an 84 Tercel. $730 bucks for the compressor, evap, all that.
Not cheap. Anyone know of anything better?


I did a R-134a retrofit on my car after the engine swap. The system sat uncharged for 4 years and open to the air for 2 weeks.
It does not cool very well. Sure, the air is cool, but not cold. My moms Passat has gotten foggy-breath going before. Mine won't even touch on that.
Also, when the A/C comes on, I swear 2 cylinders go off. I can't even maintain 50mph in 4th gear with it on. Its that bad.

So whats going on? Do I need a power-flush, new seals, and a new drier? New compressor?

What am I looking at for my car?

Also, according to the FSM, the evaporator in our cars is cube-shaped. Is there a more efficient design we can utilize as a replacement?


Any input would be awesome. Thanks guys.

[Mac]

a bigger coil is the only way to make it cooler.

moisture in the system dosn't help any, provided it dosn't leak, take it to a shop and have it properly purged and then charged, those charge in a can things are crap.

[Soutthpaw]

you need to evacuate the AC system using an AC vaccum pump for at least 30 mins then add oil and charge it back up. go the junk yard and pull the complete AC system there and then install it in your sister's car. if its a 3AC you can come pull the one off my parts car except for the compressor which I am keeping as a spare.

I've got all the AC equipment too. including a TIF ZX1 leak tester.

[Typrus]

Would the moisture explain the power-killing?
Sheesh.... Its not cheap to have someone do it....

Thanks for the offer SP. I may have to consider that as she needs AC for the baby. How much would I owe you?

[Chris]

My understanding is that an R-12 system converted to R-134a is not as efficient as running on R-12.

Don't go adding oil indiscriminately...you could overfill the system.

Evaporator coils sizes are usually designed to work with the compressor capacity and condensor capacity. So a larger evaporator will not necessarily increase cooling capacity.

As Mac andSouthpaw stated...moisture and air are the enemies of an A/C system. I would focus my attention there first. Then make sure the system in not under- or over-filled as far as refridgerent goes.

Also look at dirty/plugged evap and cond coils....then look into the expansion valve and thermistor function and adjustment. Don't overlook the obvious (or not so obvious)...make sure the water valve on the heater system is adjusted fully closed.

Hope this might give you a little insight to the system. Let us know what you find out.

[ctishman]

What do y'all know about Freeze-12? Any good/bad experiences with it?

I'd be putting it in my '85 Terc's system, which hasn't been recharged... uh... ever, I think.

[takza]

Here's some info I have...my AC started cycling at idle last summer...checked the sight glass and saw bubbles...so it's low on r12.....

* can't verify any of the info below...buyer beware.........


"RETROFIT

As long as R-12 is available, there’s no real reason to convert older vehicles to R-134a. That’s because R-12 systems cool best when charged with R-12 refrigerant. But converting to R-134a does make sense if your A/C system requires major A/C repairs (such as a new compressor, condenser or evaporator). The extra cost involved to make the changeover to R-134a does not add that much to the total repair bill.

A basic retrofit procedure can be done one of two ways. The "Type 1" retrofit follows the OEM recommended procedure and generally involves removing all the old mineral oil from the system, replacing the accumulator or receiver-drier with one that contains a desiccant (X-7) which is compatible with R-134a, replacing O-rings (if required), installing or replacing a high pressure cutout switch and/or orifice tube (if required), then adding the specified PAG oil and recharging the system with R-134a. Federal law also requires the installation of R-134a fittings on the high and low service ports to reduce the chance of refrigerant cross-contamination the next time the vehicle is serviced, and labels that identify the system has been converted to R-134a. For more information, buy the R134A RETROFIT GUIDE program featured on this website.

A "Type 2" procedure is more of a "quick and cheap" approach to retrofit. On many 1989 through 1993 vintage vehicles, the R-12 A/C systems can be converted to R-134a by simply recovering any of the R-12 that’s left in the system (NOTE: it is illegal to vent refrigerant into the atmosphere!), adding POE oil (which is compatible with both types of refrigerant), and then recharging with R-134a.

NOTE: Type 2 conversions can’t always be done on some vehicles because their compressors may not be compatible with R-134a (any compressor with Viton seals has to be replaced). This includes original equipment compressors such as Tecumseh HR980, some Keihin compressors and some Panasonic rotary valve style compressors in older Nissan vehicles.

Durability is another concern. Because R-134a raises compressor discharge pressures and increases the compressor’s work load, some lightweight compressors may not be rugged enough to tolerate R-134a over the long haul. This applies to the Harrison DA6 and Ford FX-15 compressors. The Harrison DA6 can be replaced with a HD-6, HR-6 or HR-6HE compressor. The Ford FX-15 compressor can be replaced with a FS-10 compressor."


"I have done 2 cars plus a friends, of course if you are low on r12 then that means you have a leak somewhere you may want to fix... basically remove all the old r12 from you system, you add the oil that comes with the kit and then add the r134. Just remember that you dont put as much r134 as you do r12, it like only 80% or something like that, I add 1-1 1/2 cans to start and then added a little at a time until your happy. just dont overfill... it runs at higher pressure so you can cause damage. It is a little slower to cool but over all I was happy and it is some much cheaper, if you have a slow leak you can add a stop leak to it or just add a can ever few weeks for $5..."


"I wish to pass on my simple but effective efficiency boost for my air conditioner: I insulate wrap the 'cold' a/c line from the a/c compressor to the firewall. This includes the dryer. I noticed condensation from the cold lines, and saw it as wasted cooling power. My a/c runs cooler, and thus more efficiently; more cycling into the off mode. The insulation wrap I use is self adhesive foil and foam pipe wrap."


"All I can say is my dad (I shall describe him as "frugal") has always just poured the 134 right into any of his old cars that have lost their r12 (after finding and replacing the leaking seal, of course). He's never messed with the oil or changed any components, using a modified hose to hook up between the 134 can and the 12 fittings on the car. Last car he did was a 76 280Z...3+ years so far with NO problems whatsoever, and cold, cold air. I'm sure doing it right is probably best, but at least his experience has been: it's not worth the effort and expense."

"I use Freeze12 and it works in any R12 unit. Anyone can buy it. It is not expensive. You don't have to change anything to use it."

"Picked up 3 cans of Dura-Cool just before 4th of July weekend. Decided to finally fix my 85 na. Wifey complaining the sweat was getting in her eyes or something like that. Anyway. When I got home I was looking at the can trying to determine the contents. I found a UN #. Turns out to be propane. I paid $5.49 a can. Got to thinking. So I went to Dura-Cool's website. It wasn't any more informative than the can. So I decided to take a chance. Use to remember the old codgers (yes, older'n me, thank you) talk about running propane in their refridgerators and I remembered my camper's fridge also could run on propane. I have a wal-mart propane torch in my shed so I cut the end off of an a/c manifold gauge set, cut the flared tip off the torch head and forced the hose over the tube of the torch. Hooked the vacuum pump up and pulled a vacuum for 40 minutes. Added 2 oz of mineral oil (same as used with R-12). I added propane from the bottle while watching the gauges. It was running 26 on the low side and 170 on the high side. Blows 35 degrees out of the center vent on low speed. I am not sure how much is installed but, in my opinion, it is not enough to be of any danger, in case of accident. All I know is, I have had the car since August of '84 and the A/C NEVER worked this good. It was MUCH less expensive than an HFC-134A conversion and much cooler at the vents. Also, working pressure of the compressor is considerably less, translating into longer compressor life. Liked it so well, converted my 82 Nissan pickup and my 93 Maxima to propane. Both will freeze you out.
Just an idea. In case you're interested in trying."

"I have converted several cars from R 12 to R 134 A. I highly advise changing the receiver drier and having the conversion done by a professional. The right way of doing it is to evacuate the old system, change the drier, create a vacuum, then recharge with the correct amount of Freon and Esther oil. I used my friends AC machine which cost him $4,000. If you don't do it right, you can blow your compressor by overfilling the system. If you don't put the correct amount in it won't blow out cold. If I remember, you use 9 ounces of r134 A for every 12 ounces of R12. The reason for this is that you are adding about 8 ounces of refrigeration oil when in an R 12 system you may run 1/2 ounce of light refrigeration oil."

[Gasoline Fumes]

Propane, eh? Interesting. If I ever get a car with A/C....

I bet it's easy to find leaks too!

[hornett22]

make sure you have a reputable shop do the conversion.you MUST replace the reciever drier with a new one if you want it to work right.they are cheap here:www.europartsdirect.com

i have done several conversions and they work just as good as r-12 if done correctly.you also may want to pull the lower dash apart and make sure your evaporator fan and heater core box is not clogged with a mouse nest.very common in these.even mice recognize a quality vehicle . condensor fins must be in goood shape and allow air to pass through with little to no restriction.

[Mac]

propane = BOOM!

[Typrus]

So a new question......
Is there an A/C Condensor that can replace ours? Maybe a skinnier, but wider one? I'm thinking about looking at wider radiators, but to do so the A/C condensor is compromised. I examined the possibility of turning the pull-through fan into a blow-through to open up some space, but then the grille won't fit. Anyone have any thought?
Maybe if we can use a higher capacity condensor then we could also get a bigger evaporator, or maybe run a supplementary system to the rear for full climate control. lol