New to me Tercel rundown

[Murph]

First time poster here, super stoked to have found this forum and what seems like an incredibly knowledgeable community behind it!
I have my first 1987 4wd wagon (3AC) that I picked up a little over a week ago (the white one that was up for sale in Denver). When I got it, it did not run at idle, you had to flutter the gas when not moving or in gear to keep it running. It cruised great everywhere else and drove it the 2 hours home with no issues other than the couple times it died at a light when I forgot to keep on the gas . Since I've had it home I have done crank and cam seals, intake/exhaust gasket, water-pump, valve cover gasket, all vacuum lines and belts, fluids flushed and replaced, and have new shocks/struts otw. Previous owner did HG and timing belt.

I started it today after getting everything all buttoned up and it ran at idle without dying but I am getting an exhaust leak where the bottom of the intake manifold closes off the top of the exhaust manifold. I've looked through rockauto and the FSM for a gasket part number and new bolts to hold the intake down.

The other thing I found weird is that to start it instead of pressing the clutch to turn the key you have to hold down the kill switch down where the left foot rest meets the floor board. Is that normal procedure for Tercels or is that something else to dig into?

Any help on sourcing parts or info would be immensely appreciated!

I have already learned a ton from here just reading in the last week and I'm ready for more!

[NWMO]

Hey Murph,

Welcome to the board! Being an 87’, having the clutch in should be required, to start the car. The “kill” switch is something I’m not familiar with (and likely isn’t stock). It sounds like somebody’s answer to avoid starting the car in gear, but being an 87’, I think it should have had “start-safety” when produced. You might check the VIN to confirm year of production,

Chris

[Murph]

Hey Murph,

Welcome to the board! Being an 87’, having the clutch in should be required, to start the car. The “kill” switch is something I’m not familiar with (and likely isn’t stock). It sounds like somebody’s answer to avoid starting the car in gear, but being an 87’, I think it should have had “start-safety” when produced. You might check the VIN to confirm year of production,

Chris

Ok that's what I thought, only reason I called it a "kill" switch is from a note that someone had written in what seemed like 2015. VIN confirms its an 87'. I will put a picture up tomorrow when I can.

[SirFoxx]

Hey Murph,

Welcome to the board! Being an 87’, having the clutch in should be required, to start the car. The “kill” switch is something I’m not familiar with (and likely isn’t stock). It sounds like somebody’s answer to avoid starting the car in gear, but being an 87’, I think it should have had “start-safety” when produced. You might check the VIN to confirm year of production,

Chris

Ok that's what I thought, only reason I called it a "kill" switch is from a note that someone had written in what seemed like 2015. VIN confirms its an 87'. I will put a picture up tomorrow when I can.

86-88 tercels have a clutch safety switch. PO prolly added the floor switch when the original clutch switch failed.

[Murph]

Ok its been a minute since I have had a chance to work on the Terc. Thank you SirFoxx for the clutch safety switch tip, it looks like the PO just relocated the original switch to the floor for some reason.
Onto the next issue. Upon startup it ran fine, idle mixture is a little off but it idles fine. Before it can get to operating temp to make any adjustments to the carb I get what looks/smells like an exhaust or blow by leak. Its not the manifold gasket, from what I can tell it is coming from where the intake sits on top of the exhaust manifold. Last time I got down there I sealed it up with copper gasket maker but that hasn't seemed to make a difference.
My other thought is that there is a pipe or hose where the blow by flows that is cracked or leaking.
Thoughts? Also if I can clear anything up please let me know.

[NWMO]

Are your EGR components intact? It’s been a bit since my rebuild, but it seems like the intake manifold bolts to the top of the exhaust manifold, but it’s only structural support? If you’re getting air movement, I would expect it’s between the carb base and the intake manifold.

[Murph]

Are your EGR components intact? It’s been a bit since my rebuild, but it seems like the intake manifold bolts to the top of the exhaust manifold, but it’s only structural support? If you’re getting air movement, I would expect it’s between the carb base and the intake manifold.

EGR seems to all be intact and working right. When I first bought it it drove great, no visible leaks, only issue is it would die at idle, had to flutter the gas at stoplights and such. When I got it back I did water pump timing belt and vacuum line refresh. Where the intake sits on top of the exhaust it covers a square hole at the top of the exhaust manifold that is used to access the bimetal heat control valve.
Only after I got everything back together did I have the air leak. The heat shield that goes over the tire side of the exhaust manifold has a heatshield that also pipes hot air back up into the HAI on the air cleaner. From what I can find this "dual purpose" heat shield is only on the Cali. spec. emissions motors. That heat shield gets sandwiched between the intake/exhaust manifolds where it meets that joint is starting to corrode and flake apart just from years of heat cycles. That is what I had assumed was leaking air, between the flaking of the heat shields and the fact that the bolts to hold the intake to the exhaust were stripped and old, it made sense that there was not enough to keep exhaust air in the manifold. Took it apart again, ran high temp Copper Permatex between the exhaust and heat shield, and another layer between heatshield and intake, re-tapped the bold holes and new bolts, let it sit, then torqued it down.
I let it sit overnight so the Permatex could cure, started it the next day and it fired right up, sounded good felt good etc. After about 2-3 min of letting it run I got the same exhaust looking air coming up from the manifolds/carb area. Shut the car off and poked around with a flashlight to see if I could narrow down where it was coming form without removing anything. Couldn't find the source before it dissipated, so I went to start it again to get smoke. No start, the motor cranks and will at most get to a really low crappy idle (maybe 500rpm) for a few seconds then dies again.
Since it will idle I know its getting spark, flutter the gas and it feels like it tries a little harder but still doesn't get above 500rpm.

[Nordical25]

Do you know if that exhaust looking air is actually exhaust gas? First thing is to know what it is and second find the source. If it is exhaust gas, you may have for example a leaky seal between manifold and exhaust pipe or between exhaust manifold and engine.

And what happens if you spray start fluid to carb? If that affects RPM, you may have a leak somewhere in vacuum lines, carb, intake manifold etc. I had once a leaky and bent shield plate between carb and intake manifold. That one affected more to idle than I could think of.

[Murph]

Nordical25 that's a good question, I had originally assumed exhaust gas just because I had gotten all the way down the the exhaust manifold and figured something didn't seal right when I put it back together. My other thought is that it is blow by gas from the crankcase (HC). If it is HC it'd be a vacuum leak somewhere. I don't have any starting fluid at the ready, so I've been using a a carb cleaner spray to check for vacuum leaks. I will also check the plate between carb and intake manifold, that one looked all good when I first pulled it but maybe I missed something

[Murph]

Update; I was able to get it to start, stupid me it was just a low battery from sitting while I worked. Charged it and she fired right up, I took a walk after that cause I felt like somewhat of a knob.

There is definitely pining in the motor when it runs, I was able to get the timing set to about 8* BTDC and still have the pining. The leak is definitely coming from under the intake manifold but I can't tell exactly where from.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ ... &crop=fill

this is where I think the exhaust leak is coming from. You can kind of see the corrosion from where the heat shield seats between both manifolds. My guess is that it was rust welded together over the years and when I took the intake manifold off it broke that seal and moved around enough to not seal back up properly.

Hopefully I uploaded the image correctly, photobucket is trying to talk me into all sorts of plan upgrades to be able to share the direct link to the photo

[Murph]

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ ... &crop=fill

A schematic of the manifold complex with the heat shield, I'm wondering if I remove the heat shield I will still be able to run attach the HAI system properly.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ ... &crop=fill

A pic of the Terc as she stood when I bought her

[Nordical25]

It could be a possibility that this seal surface between intake manifold and exhaust manifold could be leaking.

What is that area on the left side of your exhaust manifold under "03"-stamp? Could there be a minor crack or why is that surface so different from remaining part of manifold?

[NWMO]

Murph,

These carbs need the heat shield. Looking at your pic, it appears a portion of the gasket is missing. I would think you would need the appropriate “metal” gasket, as anything less won’t likely handle the heat and pressure.

[Murph]

Murph,

These carbs need the heat shield. Looking at your pic, it appears a portion of the gasket is missing. I would think you would need the appropriate “metal” gasket, as anything less won’t likely handle the heat and pressure.

Through all the searching I've done I haven't been able to find any sort of gasket that goes in that spot. My thought is that I can cut just the part of the heat shield that gets sandwiched. That way the mating surface is direct between the intake and exhaust manifolds (no corrosion, clean surfaces), it also leaves "active" part of the heat shield to do it's job. ?

[Murph]

I also have some thin sheet metal that I could fab a new sandwich/heat shield