4AGE swap into 85 4WD

How-to's and repair secrets for your 4WD can be found here. Have a question? Ask it in here!
Post Reply
shogun
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 784
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:48 pm

Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by shogun » Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:06 pm

petros im looking for flat pistons 78mm you know where they can be found (sorry for the thread jack synth)
tercel 4wd custom suspension, under drive pulley, vented brakes, cold air intake, and plenty more to come

ewsoares
Newbie
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:57 pm
My tercel:: 1984 Tercel 4WD

Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by ewsoares » Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:22 am

I had not seen the MR2 brake upgrade, looking for it now. Will this make it easier to brake? Seems like I have to push pretty hard and constant to stop. I dont remember it being that hard with my first SR5, maybe my power booster is going? I believe I do have a vacuum leak somewhere, fluctuating idle by about 500-800 RPM roughly. And idle will take off to about 1500 RPM and stay there until I rev engine a bit. I am curios on the offered price in case I want to do the mod, pm or respond here. Also living in colo springs I am on a lot of inclines, hills and waiting in traffic it takes a lot of pedal pressure to hold the car from rolling back.

User avatar
Petros
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 11188
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:31 pm
My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by Petros » Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:58 am

The stock brakes are way too light for this car, they are the same as for the fwd hatchback. You can overheat and warp them just making a hard stop coming down a mountain pass (I have twice!). You will make it stop better with the change in master cylinder, and make the brakes less heat sensitive by changing to vented front disks. Here is the thread where I instruct you how you can do that: http://www.tercel4wd.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4998

Shogun; The last flat top pistons for the 3a I got was from Sealed Power, I do not know if they still make them since it was over 5 years ago. I can get you part numbers if you want to look.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

shogun
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 784
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:48 pm

Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by shogun » Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:56 pm

@petros thankyou it would help me a lot

i raced my tercel and i can attest that brakes are inadecuate, good fluids a good set of hawk hp plus pads and everything up to spec it will out break many modern cars, with the update of course i did it like 6 or 7 years ago
tercel 4wd custom suspension, under drive pulley, vented brakes, cold air intake, and plenty more to come

ewsoares
Newbie
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:57 pm
My tercel:: 1984 Tercel 4WD

Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by ewsoares » Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:34 am

Now I need to take a trip to the junk yard. I like that place anyway, lol. I myself think it would be cheaper for me to replace the crankshaft than weld and redrill flywheels. Since I am inclined to rebuild whatever 4age I get for my tercel as well as I think most machine shops take too long and might be a useless expense if im rebuilding anyway. So do I have to go with fuel injection or can I keep the carb when I do the swap? whats best? I dont mind the FI although I have always been a fan of carbs. Would save some work if it didnt matter. By that point though its probly not that much more work to do the fuel lines I imagine?

User avatar
Petros
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 11188
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:31 pm
My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by Petros » Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:47 pm

EFI is way superior to any carb set up. IT would be a shame to put a single carb on a 4age, unless you go duel side draft solex (there is a kit available to convert the 4age to duel side drafts, shows up on ebay somethings), but it is big bucks, more than the engine and cars costs. I would go with the EFI just for lower cost and better driviablity, economy. However, lifting the Tercel hood and seeing duel side draft carbs on a twin cam engine would be hot.

You likely can make a 4age head work on a 4afe or 7afe short block, and that would save you from messing with flywheel and crank issues, both have the same 6 bolt flywheel pattern as the 3ac engine.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

ewsoares
Newbie
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:57 pm
My tercel:: 1984 Tercel 4WD

Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by ewsoares » Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:32 pm

So it sounds like I will just make a list and start getting piece by piece until I have it all, I would much rather just swap a head especially if I would be rebuilding it anyway.

SynthDesign
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 799
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:42 pm
My tercel:: The General, 85 SR5 w/ Sunroof,Olive Drab paint, Black Interior, custom steel bumpers, Barto BC lift, 1.67L BUILT 3AC w/ Weber Carb. 346,000 miles and counting since restoration
Location: Seattle WA
Contact:

Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by SynthDesign » Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:43 pm

@ewsoares, I was just in Colo Sprngs for the PPIHC. As for the list it's a bit lengthy but a custom flywheel and high pressure clutch and plate are a must.

The AW11 Brake booster is one of those "MUST" upgrades. 100% worth it in every aspect! Already installed for my swap.

A good machine shop is worth their weight in Beer tips. Seriously! 65% of the cost of my build so far went to the machine shop Shameless Plug, Kirt at East Side Machine in Redmond WA. I'm expecting my engine to go hard and last long. Also this is the 13th engine I've had him work over now and never a problem.
Vintage and Classic Toyota; Have you loved your Toyota today?
2016 Toyota Tacoma Quad Cab LB TRD OffRoad
85 Toyota Tercel SR5 4wd (The General)
85 Toyota Tercel GTS 4wd (4AGE Swap)
85 Toyota MR2 (Blu)
86 Toyota Tercel 4WD DLX for sale (BluBoy)
86 Toyota Tercel SR5 Canadian Import (Galena)
83 Mazda RX-7 Mariah Widebody
Wait I have more

SynthDesign
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 799
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:42 pm
My tercel:: The General, 85 SR5 w/ Sunroof,Olive Drab paint, Black Interior, custom steel bumpers, Barto BC lift, 1.67L BUILT 3AC w/ Weber Carb. 346,000 miles and counting since restoration
Location: Seattle WA
Contact:

Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by SynthDesign » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:52 am

Gettin closer
4AGE swap floor.JPG
Wiring, Exhaust, Fuel line/Pump, throttle cable and......
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Vintage and Classic Toyota; Have you loved your Toyota today?
2016 Toyota Tacoma Quad Cab LB TRD OffRoad
85 Toyota Tercel SR5 4wd (The General)
85 Toyota Tercel GTS 4wd (4AGE Swap)
85 Toyota MR2 (Blu)
86 Toyota Tercel 4WD DLX for sale (BluBoy)
86 Toyota Tercel SR5 Canadian Import (Galena)
83 Mazda RX-7 Mariah Widebody
Wait I have more

4wdchico
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 563
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:51 pm
My tercel:: 1985 tercel 4wd
Location: Chico, Norcal

Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by 4wdchico » Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:27 pm

ewsoares wrote:Now I need to take a trip to the junk yard. I like that place anyway, lol. I myself think it would be cheaper for me to replace the crankshaft than weld and redrill flywheels. Since I am inclined to rebuild whatever 4age I get for my tercel as well as I think most machine shops take too long and might be a useless expense if im rebuilding anyway. So do I have to go with fuel injection or can I keep the carb when I do the swap? whats best? I dont mind the FI although I have always been a fan of carbs. Would save some work if it didnt matter. By that point though its probly not that much more work to do the fuel lines I imagine?
The 4age engine has a forged crank and much better rods than the 3a/4a setup. So if you want to enjoy the RPM potential of the 4ag head w/o worrying that your cast 3a/4a crank is going to grenade, I'd suggest sticking with the forged crank and have the flywheel modded.

SynthDesign
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 799
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:42 pm
My tercel:: The General, 85 SR5 w/ Sunroof,Olive Drab paint, Black Interior, custom steel bumpers, Barto BC lift, 1.67L BUILT 3AC w/ Weber Carb. 346,000 miles and counting since restoration
Location: Seattle WA
Contact:

Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by SynthDesign » Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:41 pm

Carburetion VS Fuel Injection is a major time difference. If I wanted to go Carb'd, the engine would be in and running. I'm roughly 27 hours into wiring play. The reason I'm going for fuel injection is reliability, fuel economy and durability. Most of the people running a Carb'd 4A-GE get around 17 to 19 average, burn up valves and put down quite a bit more HP. The stock AE86, Corolla GTS drivers see 32mpg average with the fuel injection and the heads have shown to last 200K w/o a problem and put down a modest 120 to 140 HP.


That said, my choice and my wiring HELL.
4age wiring progress.jpg
Everything with blue tape stays including the ECU. Every wire going out has to be added to the T4WD system
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Vintage and Classic Toyota; Have you loved your Toyota today?
2016 Toyota Tacoma Quad Cab LB TRD OffRoad
85 Toyota Tercel SR5 4wd (The General)
85 Toyota Tercel GTS 4wd (4AGE Swap)
85 Toyota MR2 (Blu)
86 Toyota Tercel 4WD DLX for sale (BluBoy)
86 Toyota Tercel SR5 Canadian Import (Galena)
83 Mazda RX-7 Mariah Widebody
Wait I have more

User avatar
ARCHINSTL
Goldie Forever
Posts: 6369
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:52 pm
My tercel:: Goldie is a 1986 SR5 attualmente con Weber/also owned the first T4WD in STL in late '82
Location: Kirkwood, a 'burb of St. Louis

Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by ARCHINSTL » Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:47 pm

Synth - you (and several others) just - blow me away!

Tom M.
T4WD augury?
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit."
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"
"Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates."
Mark Twain

SynthDesign
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 799
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:42 pm
My tercel:: The General, 85 SR5 w/ Sunroof,Olive Drab paint, Black Interior, custom steel bumpers, Barto BC lift, 1.67L BUILT 3AC w/ Weber Carb. 346,000 miles and counting since restoration
Location: Seattle WA
Contact:

Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by SynthDesign » Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:25 am

Got a good portion of the wiring tied up. Gotta yank the Tercel dash and a few panels... still workin out fuel pump and exhaust. Also need to find a Supra alternator in the same amp-age and plug configuration as bracket is on the other side and the mount is the same(easier than fab'in a big tensioner bracket).
I snagged a 90 Tercel throttle cable and adapted it to work in a T4WD with the 4A-GE engine

I was temped by my Toyota Guru to yank all the emissions stuff. Only issue would be a check engine light, which I just found out I will have to add... somewhere..
I emailed the SCCA sanctioning body just to make sure. Another option might be to run an MR2 ECU which I have a few of.

I took Monday the 8th off to drop the engine in. Hopefully a bit of eye candy to show in the coming month.
Vintage and Classic Toyota; Have you loved your Toyota today?
2016 Toyota Tacoma Quad Cab LB TRD OffRoad
85 Toyota Tercel SR5 4wd (The General)
85 Toyota Tercel GTS 4wd (4AGE Swap)
85 Toyota MR2 (Blu)
86 Toyota Tercel 4WD DLX for sale (BluBoy)
86 Toyota Tercel SR5 Canadian Import (Galena)
83 Mazda RX-7 Mariah Widebody
Wait I have more

SynthDesign
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 799
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:42 pm
My tercel:: The General, 85 SR5 w/ Sunroof,Olive Drab paint, Black Interior, custom steel bumpers, Barto BC lift, 1.67L BUILT 3AC w/ Weber Carb. 346,000 miles and counting since restoration
Location: Seattle WA
Contact:

Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by SynthDesign » Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:55 pm

So Monday the 8th came and went with no time for the swap. Last weekend I did get a bit further.
4age in 1.JPG
Much easier to install and pull the engine/trans w/o the front cross member
4age in 2.JPG
4age in 5.JPG
4age in 6.JPG
4age in 8.JPG
The engine is going to need to be dropped a bit. I'll start with a 10mm cross member spacers like I did in the general and see what happens. Also maybe try a thinner engine mount as the rack has plenty of room over the oil pan.
rack clearance.JPG
4age in 9.JPG
Lots more to come :)
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Vintage and Classic Toyota; Have you loved your Toyota today?
2016 Toyota Tacoma Quad Cab LB TRD OffRoad
85 Toyota Tercel SR5 4wd (The General)
85 Toyota Tercel GTS 4wd (4AGE Swap)
85 Toyota MR2 (Blu)
86 Toyota Tercel 4WD DLX for sale (BluBoy)
86 Toyota Tercel SR5 Canadian Import (Galena)
83 Mazda RX-7 Mariah Widebody
Wait I have more

User avatar
Petros
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 11188
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:31 pm
My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by Petros » Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:03 pm

nice install. how did you get the trans housing so clean? did you have a shop rebuild your trans? I used degreaser on mine and at best it looks like dull and dark aluminum, with lots of 'dark patches'.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

Post Reply