Odd coolant leak

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irowiki
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Odd coolant leak

Post by irowiki » Sun Oct 20, 2013 8:19 am

Spung a coolant leak that only started after I flushed the system out. Used a bottle of flush stuff. I suspect I may have removed some crud that was sealing it!

When the car is stopped I can smell antifreeze, and the bottom of the car was coated with it!

Main leak is here:

Image

Also seems to be dribbling out of the radiator cap, or that may be splashes as I found some coolant on one of the AC lines.

I think the picture is of the bypass tube? I am unable to tell if it is actually leaking from the seal where that assembly is attached to the block and just pooling there. I cleaned it all out, and by the time we got home, it was "full" again.

It is leaking very slowly, the overflow bottle went down by half an inch. Car isn't overheating. Would stop leak help in a case like this?
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Re: Odd coolant leak

Post by TURTCEL » Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:24 am

There is a water pump housing o-ring seal kit that you can buy to replace those leaking seals. I got mine from Felpro. It is a little bit of an involved job but not too hard. I would also replace the radiator cap, as they get older the seal on them wears out as well as the spring tension looses a little for the pressure relief.

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Re: Odd coolant leak

Post by marlinh » Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:32 am

Do you have the part number of the fel pro kit? I can't get any o rings here except from the dealer. They are ridiculously expensive.

None of the aftermarket places can find a listing for those o rings.

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Re: Odd coolant leak

Post by scrapz253 » Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:54 am

i discovered that mine has the same leak. not nearly as bad yet. but in the same spot... previous owner tried stop leak, but if you have ever had to rebuild a motor that somebody used stop leak in, you wouldn't ever use it again. just get the o-rings and gaskets and do it right. if the leak is that bad, then stop leak wont work anyways. i wonder if you just buy a water pump if it will have the o-rings. might be worth replacing since you will have it apart anyways. i'll look into it also.

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Re: Odd coolant leak

Post by Petros » Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:08 am

almost certainly the o-rings. You remove the coolent outlet front the side of the head (two 12 mm bolts) and you can get to them. You will have to replace the gasket for the coolant outlet. You can try sealing with the RTV type of form-a-gasket, usually works but not always. I have had even new o-rings leak here, even with form-a-gasket on them. This is a good location to seal with radiator stop leak, since it is a metal to metal contact. The cheap stuff should do it. Usually I never have a issue with these o-rings, even reusing them, but one time after first used the old ones that were good, it leaked, I replaced o-rings, put form a gasket on it, and that spot still leaked, I gave up and added Barr's stop leak and stopped it.
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Re: Odd coolant leak

Post by c_j » Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:15 pm

I just had this same leak just over a week ago, and did the job as Petros mentioned above. When it went on me, it was not a slow leak, but a steady stream. It caused me to stop and fill the rad every 5 to 10 minutes. The top o-ring had obviously broken up and spit out a piece. After removal, both o-rings were found to be brittle and crumbly. (I also had this leak a long time ago on another Terc and it was a slow leak and I just let it do it's thing for quite a while before fixing.)

The O.D. of the round pipe is 17mm (~11/16"), and there is a groove in each end for the o-ring to sit in, and they should sit in the groove a bit proud (slightly bigger than the pipe, but not so big that you can't push the pipe back into the hole).

I used standard o-rings to replace mine (not metric). I believe I stretched on a #112. In metric that equates to 12.37mm I.D. x 17.61mm O.D., but I would also pick up a couple of the smaller #111 and see what you think fits best.
(Parker part numbers use a "2-" prefix, e.g. 2-112 and Dynaline part numbers use a "54" prefix, e.g. 54112)
Around here, 4 of these o-rings costs less than $1.

If you want to get technical, on page 9-3 of the Parker O-Ring Handbook (.PDF), you will find the size listing for these common o-rings.

Heck, you could try for some metric ones, but I'm tellin' ya the standard ones fit good. I used a small amount of some silicone gasket maker (RTV) on them before installing and also cleaned up the pipe and the holes with a 3M Scotch-Brite (or Norton Bear-Tex) red abrasive pad (wrap a strip around a pencil or similar to clean inside the holes).

Of course you are also disturbing the gasket for the coolant outlet, so I just bought a 'thermostat gasket blank' and traced the shape on it and cut it out. The blank gasket was a Stant #25103, but maybe you can find a proper one.
Last edited by c_j on Sun Oct 20, 2013 4:16 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Odd coolant leak

Post by keith » Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:22 pm

Just a warning, it seem that a lot of people develop leaks in their cooling systems after using a chemical flush. I see it a lot, and it has happened to me every time I used the stuff. I stopped using chemical flushes about 30 years ago for this reason and I have had a lot fewer cooling system problems since.

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Re: Odd coolant leak

Post by rer233 » Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:51 pm

marlinh wrote:Do you have the part number of the fel pro kit? I can't get any o rings here except from the dealer. They are ridiculously expensive.

None of the aftermarket places can find a listing for those o rings.
Just checked my supplier (world pac.) their PN is 96711-24013 with a list price of $2.70 ea. Under no circumstances would i consider using stop leak! Also, there are 2 versions of the bypass tube- thin-wall (early) and thick-wall(later.) No big deal to change the o rings- just remove the water housing where the upper rad hose is and pull the pipe out. I use gasket paper to make a replacement gasket for the housing-to head gasket.

Good luck.
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Re: Odd coolant leak

Post by c_j » Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:52 pm

I don't see a Fel-Pro listing for the o-rings in their online catalog, but here's your water outlet gasket if you don't feel like making one: Fel-Pro #35234
water_outlet_gasket_35234_TOP.jpg
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Re: Odd coolant leak

Post by Petros » Sun Oct 20, 2013 8:23 pm

rer233 wrote: Under no circumstances would i consider using stop leak!
Why? what do yo think might happen? You might find this interesting:

1) all car manufacturers use some sort of stop leak in the cooling system on all new cars, either as part of their coolant mix or sometimes as a slowly dissolving solid installed in the radiator.

2) there is no passage way or opening within the cooling system that is small enough to trap the solid particles of the stop leak (usually it is cellulose, though some of the more costly ones can use metal or Kevlar particles).

The car manufacturers can not chase down minor leaks in their assembly process where they roll out hundreds of cars a day out of the factories, they have used this method for many decades. Any passage small enough to catch the particles would be an error and would likely not cool properly anyway, it means the engine or cooling system is faulty in design and/or manufacture.

There is a common fear that having tiny suspended particles in the coolant will somehow compromise the effectiveness of the system, but there is no rational way this can happen. I have heard some people claim they have had to "fix" cars that were "all gummed up" with stop leak. This is very unlikely, and nearly impossible if the stop leak was used per the manufacturer's recommended procedure. Likely any gummed up system was because they tried using some folk-lore solutions (like filling the radiator with molasses, corn starch, etc, all of which I have heard).

And if it could be proved that any of the stop leak products cause serious cooling systems problems, companies such as Barr's, Prestone, Gumout and all the other large corporations that have been selling stop leak products for many decades would have been sued into bankrupts.
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Re: Odd coolant leak

Post by irowiki » Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:50 am

Okay, so this can be done without pulling the water pump? Edit: Okay, I went out and looked at the car, and the piece that will be removed is where the BTV and the TVSV is?

I picked up some interesting stop leak stuff that was on sale, claimed to have liquid glass and copper something. Will post a picture later. Was thinking of using a little in the sedan, the hoses are seeping despite being new.

As far as the wagon, it doesn't seem to be leaking as much, it might be self plugging from all the rust that is in there. That is the only reason I used the chemical flush, it was filthy! Right now it seems to seep when the engine is off, and not leak while it is running? :lol:
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Petros
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Re: Odd coolant leak

Post by Petros » Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:23 pm

irowiki wrote:Okay, so this can be done without pulling the water pump? Edit: Okay, I went out and looked at the car, and the piece that will be removed is where the BTV and the TVSV is?
yes, that is the one, do not pull the water pump. That is the gasket for that part shown above. pull the temp sensor wire, the TVSV vac hoses and than remove the two 12mm bolts and it will come off the by-pass tube. Make sure you drain and save that new coolant to reuse it when you are done.
irowiki wrote: I picked up some interesting stop leak stuff that was on sale, claimed to have liquid glass and copper something. Will post a picture later. Was thinking of using a little in the sedan, the hoses are seeping despite being new.
It usually does not work for leaky hoses, but where there are metal parts with leaky gaskets. It does work on the o-rings, I have done it.

irowiki wrote: As far as the wagon, it doesn't seem to be leaking as much, it might be self plugging from all the rust that is in there. That is the only reason I used the chemical flush, it was filthy! Right now it seems to seep when the engine is off, and not leak while it is running? :lol:
Not likely it is not leaking when running, more likely it is seeping as steam and you do not see it. When it cools down it leaks as a liquid and you notice it. oddly sometimes minor leaks like that can go away by themselves, but I would not count on it (it would be unreliable at best), so I would add some of the stop leak. You could just put a small amount in and drive it for a few days and see if that did it. No reason to have all the stuff swirling around in your cooling system if a small amount is all you need.
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Re: Odd coolant leak

Post by marlinh » Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:20 pm

Thanks for the part number rer233. I'll see if I can get them here.

Just went to the worldpac website and the number you listed didn't work.

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Re: Odd coolant leak

Post by irowiki » Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:05 am

Marlene:

http://www.toyotapartszone.com/oem/toyo ... 24013.html

I'm guessing it isn't a kit and I'd need to order two!

Edit: good golly the shipping costs at that site!

http://www.midatlantictoyotaparts.com/o ... 6711-24013

This one seems to have better shipping costs.
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Re: Odd coolant leak

Post by marlinh » Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:54 am

Thanks Paul, so that is the Toyota part number.

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