gearing, diffs etc

RabidHamster · Post by **RabidHamster** » Mon May 23, 2005 5:40 pm

soooo... I was wondering about some technical stuff so I can plan out my project properly

what are the gear ratios for and any year differences

the front and rear differentials (they should be different)

the EL 1st gear? (all of the gears is good too... again any year differences)

what are is the Rear Axle Code(s)?.. (should be Letter and 3 numbers)

I've seen it mentioned a couple times that the 4wd gearbox uses the same front carrier as all the other tercels... does this include the 87-99 E series engined tercels too?

if I can find the information I am looking for... I should be able to source out more offroad orientated gearing (especially for crawling and larger tires) ... and LSD's/lockers for front and rear.

thanks guys... if this has already been listed out somewhere... someone kindly point the way? I tried several search options to no avail

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Mon May 23, 2005 6:01 pm

86+ is 4.10 or 4.11 diff ratio. Front and back. If they were different, the 4wd system would bind up.

RabidHamster · Post by **RabidHamster** » Mon May 23, 2005 6:27 pm

actually they have to be different... the shaft to the rear runs off a pinion from the front Ring gear

WAIT... never mind.. I messed myself up :blink: ... the pinion being the same as the pinion driving the front diff from the trans mission would make the shaft back to 1:1 to the trans.. then the R&P in the rear end... blah blah blah... :blink: anyways... yeah

Thanks for that ratio

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Mon May 23, 2005 10:11 pm

If the tires were different sizes, they'd need to be proportionally different ratios.

3A-C Power · Post by **3A-C Power** » Tue May 24, 2005 7:12 am

The 4.1:1 is the highest you can get for the Tercel's rear or front end. However the bigger and better Corolla GT-S rear end has all kinds of ratios. The front diff will have to be custom, and it has been done. You might want to get in contact with the gear shop another member dealt with, I think it's called Pro Gear, somewhere around Winnipeg. They would know what to do because they've done it before. The guy's name is 20V Tercel on this board.

RabidHamster · Post by **RabidHamster** » Sat May 28, 2005 12:07 pm

okay... I'll take a peak at the ratio's avail for the corolla axle
..on a side note... how well does the corolla axle fit?... cause if the works... the celica/supra rear axle will too... I realize some mounting modifications will have to be made...I'm talking width more then anything

any word on the newer tercel diffs being the same as the 4wd tercel front diff??? (87-99 with the E series engine)

cause if it's the same ... Phantom grip makes an LSD for it... if the corolla, celica/supra rear diff works... there are Factory LSD's.. as well as aftermarket...

as for gearing... if the E series tercel diff is the same.. theres some 4.4X (auto)... 4.6X (manual) gearing right there.. (If I remeber right... I know the manual is 4.6X atleast...) .. and the corolla and celica/supra rear axles have a decent aftermarket following... hell... an old Hilux Rear axle may be the right width...and there are TONS of gears avail outthere for it... along with lockers and slip in LSD's

Just some thoughts guys... I'm still deciding if I wanna do a modded tercel wagon... or put a tercel wagon body on a modded Suzuki Sammy Frame with a VW deisel in it.

unfortunatly the gearing I would need for the safe crawling around here.. would destroy any highway for the non low range 4wd tercel (the EL 1st might not be enough)

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Sat May 28, 2005 8:01 pm

A TDI?
I've toyed with the idea of a TDI in one of my wagons...

If you can fairly easily put in the supra rear... I'm in. How would you cross-match a comperable front? I mean, if you were hitting 300+ horses, a RWD conversion would be a must, but for drags, the front would have to take a 20 or more second hammering from that kind of power without blowing. And yes, 4wd drags WILL result in faster times than 2wd drags. Just ask any of the F-Series 4x4 trucks running drags. How do you think they are hitting 11.4 in the quarter in a F-350 CREW CAB DIESEL?

RabidHamster · Post by **RabidHamster** » Sun May 29, 2005 12:13 am

when you factory in the 40% power loss of 4wd compared to around 20% of modern 2wd... on a lifted or stock suspension rig... I could see it... but even $200 into the rear suspension of a 2wd truck with the same engine and mods and the 2wd will go faster...

the defining factory between the two trucks is traction, factory 2wd trucks are nutorious for wheel hop and shitty traction... even moddifed 2wd trucks have traction issues. Split the power and drop it another 20% much better traction

... I mean you know them uber fast 4wd Top fuel cars out there and all :rolleyes:

RabidHamster · Post by **RabidHamster** » Sun May 29, 2005 12:22 am

anyways..., as for the supra axle... we'll see what happens..

I have another project I have to get atleast in primer before I start the "family hauler"

seriously what I need is to find is the ratio and axle info from the begining of the thread.

even if someone knows the EL 1st ratio it'll help the research along... I'd like to figure out all the rock crawling specifics for the tercel wagon without putting it on a different chassis

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Sun May 29, 2005 11:36 am

Ummm... Duh its an issue of traction... 4wd=4 wheels gripping versus 2... I have seen big ole F-350 Powerstroke Diesels with torsion bars, anti-hop provisions, and all that good stuff, go faster in 4wd than 2wd.
Factor. A factor is a part of an equation. A variable.
Factory. A place where a product is produced.

Look at the size of the tires on top fuel dragsters. Are you going to find those on a street legal car? Hell no you are not. Also, slicks versus all-seasons. Are full-slicks street legal? No they are not.

Come up with a light enough and efficient enough mini-drivetrain that went to those gimpy front wheels in a top fuel, and you might see .000001 improvement. When you get into those speeds, its all about weight and power. Those little tube-frame death-traps are pushing 3000 horses in some cases. WELL over 1lb/1hp. Is that going to happen on a street legal car? No. Not in the kind of ratios a Top Fuel has.

How fast do Top Fuels get? 300+ mph in the quarter? Is a street legal car going to do that? No. Even the Enzo or the Gallerdo top at around 215mph.

You are getting into professional, dedicated drags. I'm talking driving the family car/truck up to the strip and dragging it.

I'm sure I came off as an A%#Hole, but I have not had the best weekend. Didn't mean offense by it.

RabidHamster · Post by **RabidHamster** » Sun May 29, 2005 11:11 pm

eh... I don't get offended by Valid arguement points... weither with hositilty or not

don't get me wrong I fully understand exactly what you are saying... however it's been proven all over the automotive world the 2wd version is faster once you go through the modification process's ... it comes down to driveline loss more then anything at that point.. and while 4wd gets an awesome wholeshot... it looses on the top end due to it's powerloss.. it's just the nature of the beast

anyways.. lets get back to the info needed to make evil tercels that make old ladies run away and children cry in fear BWAHAHAHAHAHA

GTSSportCoupe · Post by **GTSSportCoupe** » Mon May 30, 2005 9:40 am

RabidHamster wrote: anyways.. lets get back to the info needed to make evil tercels that make old ladies run away and children cry in fear BWAHAHAHAHAHA

Try going to our home page http://www.tercel4wd.com and download the brochures for tercels. You'll see the 83-84s had one gearing set and the 85-88s had another gearing set. I believe both the final drive ratio, and actual gear ratios were different. If you can't get all the info you need, send 3AC-Power a Private Message. He'll let you know the exact ratios.

3A-C Power · Post by **3A-C Power** » Mon May 30, 2005 10:45 am

The newer German brochure is on the site and has the ratios for 85-88's, then if the English one is on here it is for 83 and has the 83-84 ratios. EL is the same and I think 1st and 5th are the only different ones. I have all the ratios at home so I'll get them tonight if I remember. The front differential is unique, I checked myself and could find none that are identical. It is too small, that's why wierd stuff sometimes happens such as the side gears becoming completely mashed with their teeth sheared off. If one did a stress calculation for the diff, those side gears would probably be the weakest link. I have considered custom fabricating an assembly with the tercel tranny's bellhousing and a rear diff from an independent rear suspension Supra or Cressida, if such a thing is dimensionally possible. Basically some cutting and welding with aluminum plate, then custom machining a shaft to connect to the Z54F's output shaft which involves cutting external involute splines. That seems like the only way to get a decent front diff.

takza · Post by **takza** » Tue May 31, 2005 7:21 am

3A-C Power wrote: The front differential is unique, I checked myself and could find none that are identical. It is too small, that's why wierd stuff sometimes happens such as the side gears becoming completely mashed with their teeth sheared off. If one did a stress calculation for the diff, those side gears would probably be the weakest link.

I was in Mexico once with a VW van and got down behind a dam...when trying to drive out it was steep & rough...causing the van to rock side to side...this trashed the side gears in the diff...resulting in strange behavior on corners where one side would rise up in a turn as the few teeth left engaged...had to have new gears put in to get home.

Mechanic said it was fixed, but not to drive it too much since he couldn't get all the metal out....once those gears go...I'd be looking for a new-used diff.