#3 cylinder all oily... engine shot?

[post_a_query]

BUGGER!!!!
the turkey wagon got up and running like they're supposed to, 4WD is go and all the necessaries dealt with (save the emissions tag).

trouble is that the little I-4 seems to have had a rougher-than-suspected life. the 4A engine leads me to think that the 83 is on its second mill.

what goes on is with fresh plugs (after the sandblaster) she goes like a scared OLD cat and does well for the first 45 minutes and at the stops she'll start to "thrum" its cylinders on the pavement like a bored teenager in algebra does the desk. i'd say this was an advance issue problem related to the vacuum switch/diaphragm assembly in the distributor, but the extra whet oily look makes me question the rings/valves. the firing order is 1-4-3-2 isn't it? the wires are fresh and well seated at both ends. i'm stuck with decisions from the outside. not really interested in the overhaul unless y'all think it's a snap.

now the questions start flying:

is it always #3 that goes bad on these motors?
~~>if looking in the yards, pull that sparky to check that one first?
are the rings/valves too much for a motorcycle minded fellow like myself?
anyone posess a fine 3A engine near houston?

any advice is appreciated... thanks
rromig <_<

[Lateer]

Oily plugs usually indicate a problem with either the valve stem seals or the rings on that cylinder.

Have you noticed any smoke coming out the back of the car at all? It'll be either grey/white or grey/blue. Either colour is not good.

When this happened to me, it was a full overhaul, rebore, rehone and polish on the crankshaft.

And mine was cylinder #4...

[takza]

I've driven a few oil burners. They'll run a long time if you use heavy oil and drive cool.

Could be the seals if you see oil when first started.

You could run straight 50W around Houston.

Bosch single plats fire pretty well in oil.

If I had the car...I'd get it to pass emissions....then drive it to see how the oil use is.

But that's only what I'd do.

[post_a_query]

AYE, she's got the habit, badly.
hard to say if it's tobacco, crack cocaine or oil.
to have a shop do it it's $1495... notice no decimal involved.
for a $300 car, i think we'll either part ways or she'll get parted out.

anyone ever do this business themselves?

[clbolt]

I've done quite a few overhauls in the past (rings, bearings, and gaskets), on various cars. By the time you buy the parts, and have a valve job and surface done on the head, you'd often come out better replacing the engine.

I posted recently about the rebuilt 4AC I picked up on ebay for $315. The total with shipping would cost $500. That includes the gaskets required to complete the install. Pep Boys was selling engine hoists recently for $100, which would put the total for a completely rebuilt engine with more horsepower at less than half the price your shop wants, and you'd still have an engine hoist.

[tercel4wdrules]

Well if you had the time you could install a 5A-FE which sometimes sells for $195, but where I live I can have it for $145. It's a 1.5L instead of the 1.6L 4A-FE. You'd probably have to hammer in the firewall due to the distributor and probably need a hood scoop to accomodate the DOHC head. I think FH Bible was doing a similar swap I believe. The car that I just bought had like $2000 worth of engine repair for the last 5 yrs. If you think you shop is trying to get a lot of money well these people beat them: <a href='http://www.jasperengines.com' target='_blank'>www.jasperengines.com</a>.

This is their price:

Pricing and Availability:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Price Is: $1745.00
Core Deposit For This Unit Is: $100.00
Skid Deposit For This Unit Is: $15.00
Sold On An Exchange Basis w/Jasper Receiving Old Unit As A Core.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now you could get a used Japanese engine for $375-500. Just depends how much you want to spend.

[post_a_query]

clbolt,
do you have good luck with that mill? Ebay seems to be the land of don't. what was the seller's name so i can check 'em out.

tercel4wdrules,
is there an endless supply of the 5a's which car did it come out of?

the yard around here says that i'd get their 3A for $300, but why is the car in the yard???? same situation as mine wouldn't be welcome....

thanks, guys, i'll keep reading sa the next money i'll see is this coming thursday, not tomorrow.

rromig

[shogun]

i bough my twin carb engine for the equivalent of 350 dollars with a tranny attached to it

[clbolt]

clbolt,
do you have good luck with that mill? Ebay seems to be the land of don't. what was the seller's name so i can check 'em out.

tercel4wdrules,
is there an endless supply of the 5a's which car did it come out of?

the yard around here says that i'd get their 3A for $300, but why is the car in the yard???? same situation as mine wouldn't be welcome....

thanks, guys, i'll keep reading sa the next money i'll see is this coming thursday, not tomorrow.

rromig

The seller's ebay ID is wearesurplusparts . They're apparently a Delco clearance warehouse, and the engines were built for Delco-Remy to be sold through Chevy dealers. The good thing about the 4AC is that all the accessories from your 3AC will bolt right up, and the engine will bolt right in and look stock. THe only thing you'd need is a "wavy" valve cover, which is easily found in the junkyard in an 86-88 Chevy Nova or 86-87 FWD Corolla.

I haven't installed mine yet, I have too many projects going on for the next couple of weeks. I have been doing a full polish on my new valve cover, just to add a little sparkle under the hood.

BTW, I picked my engine up in person (what's an extra 700 miles on a 264k mile Tercel?), and the people at the warehouse were exceptionally friendly and helpful.

[tercel4wdrules]

Here is a place where you can get a 5A-FE for $195. It has about 100 hp. Unfortunately, I don't know from what car the engine comes from but I think it has to come from a Corolla. Here is the link: <a href='http://www.cnsmotors.com/toyota.asp' target='_blank'>http://www.cnsmotors.com/toyota.asp</a>

This is how the 5A-FE looks like:

Be careful when you buy from a wrecker. We bought one for my 83 five yrs. ago for $400 and $100 for the core. A few months later with a rough run on a highway pass the engine went bad... it started smoking (blue/gray smoke with a big cloud on acceleration) and it held up with Bardahl and then it got the blown head gasket which is one reason why its resting. Some time after we bought the engine the wrecker went out of business. You should keep on looking... I wish we hadn't paid that much or had not bought the engine at all. Now I'm thinking about replacing the head with one from a wrecker in good condition, replace all the seals, the timing belt, rebuild the carb, replace the rod bearings, cam bearings, hope I don't have to rebore, hone, or replace the pistons with oversized ones, possibly replace the rings, and see what happens. I want to have some fun and experience fixing an engine.

Try to look at used Japanese engine sellers if there are any in your area and decide on one that looks good and you can find some info for or other junkyards. Let us know what happens.

Maybe the car is in there because it has a bad trans or something else? Most of the time I think the reason people would junk cars is because of bad engines and if the engine is good they want a good amount of $$$. So, therefore you have to decide whether you'll willing to pay a little more money for a rebuilt engine, unless it's like the one clbolt bought, or a used Japanese engine that won't guarantee you that it'll be running 5 yrs. later but seems a good economical choice. Good luck.

[post_a_query]

Gentlemen, you are beig a good lot of help!!!

If you had your druthers, which would you prefer to have installed in your car?

My idea is that it should drop right in, it would be great if it COULD be EFI, but I'm not sure of the ramifaications. Teddy, who has been kind enough to encourage lifting and making tough my little turkey wagon is going to do 7AC motor, but obviously, he's got years of knowledge on me and understandings, aparently, of all the engines out there Toyota made.

As was written above, the 3A was traded out for a 4A motor by the previous owner's pop. The rebuilt engine's got me excited, the Japanese market importers make me nervous as it is an unknown and likely it was in stop and go hell on the island and the purchase of an engine four states away has the same effect.

If y'all could help me decide which engine to shop for, we can get this show on the road so to speak.

Obviously, the inline six is too big and would desrtoy the inner workings, what of the 22r line of motors... side mount vs. longitudinal?

Thank you for the input,
rromig

[tercel4wdrules]

Have you seen there is a 3A engine on eBay? It's this one: <a href='http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... ename=WDVW' target='_blank'>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... me=WDVW</a> Too bad it's for local pickup in Antioch, CA. I believe there is one member that lives in that area, but this engine wouldn't do you any good.

[2wagons]

If you don’t want the expense or replacing the motor, just replace the valve seals. They are cheap, easy, and will only take only a couple of hours. My wagon had fouled #3, #4 plugs and was using 1 quart every 200-500 miles and now uses 1 quart every 2,000 miles. Plus the gas mileage has increased greatly . Just be careful when you torque the cam-cap bolts. They can shear off before reaching torque spec- don’t ask me how I know! :

[Typrus]

How do we do it? I'm interested...
If I had my way, and the world was perfect, I'd go with that EFI. Since it IS an "A" motor, it could take the tranny right up to bolt (dunno how the trans would handle 100 horses) and likely have minimal stress with mounting bracket locations, but getting that computer system installed might be very stressful. I'm not sure. If its not too big of a pain, I'll be more willing than I currently am to do it. Heck, I'm planning on a 1.9L Turbo-Diesel conversion at some point if I can make it work. When we get our friggin Passat back from our friends and I can take measurements.

[Chris]

First thing I would do is a wet and dry compression test. That will let you know if it's the rings letting oil in. If not the rings, then try the valve seal approach. It might be the seals or it could be the valve stem bushings.