Life with Leonard

GLet71 · Post by **GLet71** » Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:39 pm

As I am up shifting through first and second I get a slight grinding in the gears. It may do it for the higher gears, but I rarely need to shift rapidly through them. If I let my rpm's drop down enough, it doesn't happen; only when shifting quickly.
Now I've read a thread about bearing's and drive train needing to spin at the same speed (or something along those lines), but this is something I haven't experienced in my other Terc's. Downshifting is not a problem, slides right into lower gears without any noise.
I drained the transmission today, but was only able to get 85% (how the hell do I get it all in there anyways?!). Took it for a quick spin, and still a slight grind when I shift quickly.
For all those that will tell me to just let the rpm's drop when shifting, I do whenever possible. However, I live in a mountain community where shifting quickly needs to happen with some frequency, or I'd never get out of first gear!
Oh, I did in fact turn the one plug out the required 7-8 turns.

Lil Beast · Post by **Lil Beast** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 3:01 am

Sounds like your synchros are gone! When you've Drained your trans oil was there metal particles? Check if the drain plug is magnetise if not maybe try to find one(ask a part store don't even know if they exist tho, but to glue a powerful little magnet to the bolt works) for future bits that may break! To drain it all maybe jacking it to the right angle will do and go for a 15 min drive before to get the oil warm and more liquid(thick stuff when cold)!
Other than that could be a slight wear in the gears as well! After a couple of flushes if the problem persist maybe to find a alright one in a wrecker is your best bet!

GLet71 · Post by **GLet71** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 5:55 am

Ahh, yes, I should've mentioned it seemed more like metallic dust stuck to the magnets (both drain plugs have a magnet) than shavings or particles. It really didn't seem all that bad. Now I have never undertaken a clutch job in my life, but I was wondering if the tranny had been drained in order to replace the clutch. That might explain why I never found anything on the magnets, and possibly why the oil looked so good. I am hoping the old oil looked that clean, because I only have 180k km (110k miles).
Note: I looked at our wonderful resource, the handy FSManual, and discovered this should still be the original oil in there. Unless it was changed at another time.

Post by **dlb** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:03 am

i don't think they would do the gear oil for a clutch job since it's not necessary or connected. ditto on the syncros diagnosis/finding a new trans suggestion. you won't necessarily find big chunks or anything just because the syncros are going. they can wear down gradually, even in 180k km, if the PO was a rough shifter. my dad's '93 VW jetta was like that: even with relatively low km, second gear was always a little difficult and would often chirp if i wasn't careful.

Lil Beast · Post by **Lil Beast** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:16 pm

If metallic dust or shavings was found, you got to tell yourself than it comes from somewhere! Synchros technically are not necessary! it helps shifting without the grinding noise! Try double clutching, like big trucks don't have synchros! Do a flush somewhat regularly but don't go crazy either, just enough to motored it! Cause more shaving will happen you got to get them out! If worsen too quickly start shopping for a trans! Even if you want to rebuild a spare one could be needed for spare gears, my case!

GLet71 · Post by **GLet71** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 3:23 pm

Here's another thought. I checked my clutch pedal free play yesterday, and it seems there isn't that much adjustment left before I am maxed out. Presuming the guy didn't lie to me about installing a new clutch, would it be possible the clutch cable length is wrong? Are there different lengths for say the 4wd and the fwd? If the cable had not been replaced could it have been stretched, and in need of replacing? I am beginning to realize it is likely to be the trans, but I would like to explore the clutch idea before I go on my hunt for another trans.

I did try the clutch stress test as mentioned in another thread, it seems pretty tight, but I wimped out before letting the car actually stall. Just doesn't seem right to put that kind of pressure on my poor old Terc! Is there anywhere I could find the actual clutch cable lengths to determine whether it needs replacement?

Lil Beast · Post by **Lil Beast** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 5:19 pm

The clutch cable can stretch! A new one is fairly cheap around 15$! As for the clutch itself to test the grip! A little easy test its to try to start in 4th gear to see if slipping, it should stall on 4th no matter how gas you giving, also up a steep hill try goin up in a high gear engine should struggle, if notice a rising in the rpm but no increase of speed the clutch is slipping, could be the disc or the pressure plate! If doesn't slip maybe to worn of a cable which cause the clutch not to disengage properly always a slight grip feel! But you're right to want to look around for thr right problem as it may get expensiVe for nothing especially in those area!

GLet71 · Post by **GLet71** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:45 am

After some extensive reading of transmission/clutch threads, I have come up with a plan of attack.
First, I noticed the pawl and release sector on my clutch cable is no longer six notches away from minimum allowance. So, I stuffed a little folded paper and electrical tape behind the pawl, and effectively forced everything as tight as I could to see if it makes a difference. The result? It might have. What I hoped to find is whether I am fulling engaging the clutch when I push down. So, I will order a new OEM clutch cable to see if I can recover those six notches on the pawl and release assembly, and still have the same tight fight I appear to have now.
Second, I will do the transmission flush with the 50/50 ATF/gear oil for a couple of days. It seems the verdict is still out on what best to use for tranny oil, but I believe I cannot go wrong with a GL-4 type oil in a 75w-90. I am opting out on synthetic at this time, because there is just way too much debate on it for my liking.
Third, as I am sure you are all on the edge of your seat with my riveting experience here, I will report back to let you know what the results are. I am hoping it will be a $50 fix, and not a used transmission hunt! The more I read, the more I see of others with the same issue as me. It really isn't that big of a problem, it is just when I need to shift quickly that it occurs; that just annoys me. With summer coming, I could see it being even less problematic, because like many others, once it warms up it seems to be much less noticeable. Time to move to Panama, where cold weather is not an issue!

Post by **dlb** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:40 am

check 4wdc's post here, it almost has me convinced on trying synthetic trans oil:

https://tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4& ... oil#p43503

but i do agree that it was tough to figure out which way to go. i went with what the manual suggested, to be safe and cheap. i've had no problems.

sounds like a good plan, glet.

GLet71 · Post by **GLet71** » Wed May 09, 2012 5:11 pm

I finally managed to get through my hoops to see if any improvements could be made to my gear grind issue. I installed a new clutch cable, did a gear oil/ATF tranny 'wash', and refilled with a standard 80/90 geal oil.

It appears my grind is still an issue, and therefore I will have to keep my eyes open for another '87 transmission in better working condition. It really is not all that bad, and only occurs when I am quickly shifting from 1st to 2nd, and 2nd to 3rd. Never on the downshift, and never on any gears higher than 3rd. If there was one last improvement I could make, it would be to get my carb more responsive so the rpm's would drop quickly to allow for smoother shifting. I believe that '87 automatic parts car will be available to me, and I'd love to have a backup carb I can try and rebuild to accomplish the desired effect I am looking for. I am not interested in a Weber for this Terc, as I want it to be all stock; upgrades will be for my next one, whenever I can find it!!

Post by **Petros** » Wed May 09, 2012 5:30 pm

There is a dash pot throttle adjustment on the front side (side of the carb facing forward, oposite where the throttle crank is attached). It is a vac operated diaphragm that slows the throttle's return to idle, you just back off the adjustment screw so it returns to idle faster. This keeps the throttle from slamming shut, that causes a spike in HC emissions. If this adjustment is to far in, it makes driving a nuisance.

tercel4wdrules · Post by **tercel4wdrules** » Wed May 09, 2012 5:31 pm

The syncronizer rings for 2nd and 3rd gear were known to be a culprit and Toyota issued a technical service bulletin for this issue for revised parts. If the transmission is otherwise quiet I wouldn't bother to replace it. It would help if you double-clutched on those quick upshifts, it would add an extra step, but will make for smoother shifts. We have to take care of the remaining transmissions that are left as they are getting harder to find.

Post by **dlb** » Wed May 09, 2012 6:49 pm

i agree with T4WDR that living it is probably best. the throttle positioner (aka TP) that petros mentioned is easy to adjust so check the FSM for the procedure on doing that and then set it as you like.

something else you can try is synthetic trans oil. 4WDchico mentioned it a while back in this thread and i've been curious about it since but the cost of synthetic oil is what has stopped me from bothering. all the transmissions i've come across have been fine anyway.

https://tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4& ... tic#p43503

GLet71 · Post by **GLet71** » Mon May 14, 2012 10:24 pm

I made it. Baby crying, wife tired, and new-to-me canoe on the roof, we came back the same way we went; over the Salmo-Creston pass! Our first foray in our new Terc went without a hitch, but I certainly see some more things to look at before we make the big trek out to Manitoba this summer. Losing coolant...somewhere, front brake inspection with potential upgrade for safety sake, and dammit, all I got was 24.7mpg...without the canoe! Sure, I went over a pass where the snow is still higher than the car, but I hope to get in the 30mpg range on the highway. I am not happy with how my carb is running; the float glass is empty in the morning, seems to starve easy when starting hot, seems to run rich, but runs really well when cruising around at all speeds. I will make certain to get my hands on another carb, so I can give rebuilding one a shot in hopes of improvement. I am happy to say the proceeds from the sale of my truck came through today, and I now run the risk of buying every freakin' Tercel within my CAA premier towing range, haha!

Another thing came to us on our first adventure, a name for our beloved DLX...Leonard, a hip and melodic ride who takes his time in getting us not only where we need to go, but where we want to go as well

Post by **ARCHINSTL** » Mon May 14, 2012 10:31 pm

Great update!
Boy, I sure like those body-color window frames! Was that on all '87 and '88 Wagons or just the DLX's? Funny - I don't think that's appeared in any T4WD pix, save for red cars ? ? ?
Tom M.

Tercel4WD.com