Transmission questions

[CMB]

Are all 4wd tercel transmissions direct bolt-in swaps? I think I recall reading some changes were made to gearing ratios mid-80s.

My current tranmission, original with 230,000 miles works, but 1) pops out of first gear if going down slope and riding the gear, 2) synchros feel worn as you have to ease your way into 2nd and 3rd at speed, 3) front diff has a little more play than I would like, and 4) minor seepage at paper gaskets b/w cases.

My clutch is at its wear limit too, and might be contributing to the #2 above. I have all the clutch parts and plan to replace this summer and am starting to think I should just do trans swap at the same time. Details: current trans had bad rear output seal when I bought the car. Drained 2 qts of old dirty gear oil. Replaced with 80w-90 up to fill plug (did the 8 turns thing).

My options seem to be:
a) replace clutch and attempt to revive current transmission. I am thinking seafoam flush followed by 90w. Replace just the front diff at some point. cost $100
b) replace clutch and try my luck with a used transmission form salvage yard or forum member. Sometimes me luck no good. cost $250 + PIA at junkyard
c) replace clutch and buy new transmission (discount toyota says they have 'em). Will run forever and be awesome. cost $1450 delivered.

Any thoughts, opinions, suggestions?

[dlb]

you're right about the transmissions being different. 83 and 84's use a 3.73 gear ratio while 85-88 use a 4.1. if you can't find a 3.73 trans you can put in a 4.1 as long as you swap the rear diff as well.

my advice: go with option B. sounds like your trans is definitely worn so i would go for it. there are lots of tercs and other board members in your area so surely you will be able to find a good trans at a decent price.

just out of curiosity, what do you mean by "front diff has a little more play than i would like"? play in what way?

[4wdchico]

I have tried several online discount 'yota dealers that showed the complete trans available but when I have tried to order them, no deal. If you could post me a link of the dealer who said they could get them I would appreciate it. My guess is that it they are offering a transmission only, not the whole diff./tranny/transfer case shebang at the $1450 price

If you are talking about swapping in a transmission only you can go with any year. But you would be well served to try to get one from '85 or later as they have lower 1st, 2nd and reverse gears in them and drive much better in the mountains.

If you want to go with a whole used diff./tranny/transfer case assembly, the best way to go is to find a whole rusty donor car with a failing but running motor so you can test drive it to check out the driveline. Should be cheap. I have both an '84 & '85 t4wd and the lower diffs and tranny gears are a big improvement, so if possible I'd look to get an '85 or up donor car and swap in all of the driveline but your motor.

[CMB]

Thanks guys, this is the kind of expereince/info that is nice to have when you are hemming and hawing about what to do with your terc.

That was this discount toyota site:
http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/ ... atalogid=1

I e-mailed them last friday, and nothing back yet, so looks like another false inventory.

Dave, I guess by play, I mean slop. I can't say this from any measurements or expereince opening up a FWD diff, but the feeling is very similar to driving a rear wheel drive car where the pinion bearing is shot...where the driveshaft rotates a bit before the gears are meshing.

[tercel4wdrules]

I have an '84 SR5 that I started driving at 230k miles and it sits at 268k, it will pop out of first gear on a very steep descent and the syncros have had it, but I was able to drive it for a good while longer by rev-matching my downshifts particularly 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear. It will still drive, but I'm going to just put in another one for sake of reliability. Does the trans also have a bit of whine?

[Petros]

Get a used trans and replace the seals, do a flush with 50/50 gear oil and ATF, drive for 2-4 days, drain and refill with 90w gear oil. save your old trans, find a rebuild kit and rebuild it (not that difficult), than keep as a spare. Keep the oil changed in the trans every 30k miles, treat it "nice" (no "speed shifting") and between the two trans, they should last you for the rest of your life.

If you are getting the whole transaxle, make sure you get the '83-84 year so the diff ratio will match. Or just plan on swapping out the rear diff as well. the later 4.1:1 ring and pinion ratio is much better to drive and use with the underpowered engine.

[CMB]

Petros, I like your approach, but I was suprosed to see a list price for tranny rebuild kit with synchro rings at $640 and the differential rebuild kit at $287-387 depedning on model. I trust i can do the rebuild, as I have rebuilt a toyota transfer case and rear diff before. But that price is surprising for non-oem rebuild kit.

I also think I am going to make the leap from 3.7 to 4.1 gears. So next step is to acquire 85-87 tranmission/front diff mtaching rear diff in great shape.

I am in no hurry as my current tranny is not that bad. I think I could make it to the 270,000 mark no problem, just have to take her easy. I would like to do the 4AC swap at some point too, but I hesitate to add any power with the current tranny in place.

i think I will go ahead and do the clutch next, see what that does for me.

[gmeddy]

have you replaced your clutch yet?
any tips?
i started on mine today, turned into a pig of a job!
i thought it would be simple since i recently had to remove the Gearbox on my big Defender.
but no.

i've got both front drive shafts pulled out of the gearbox as the manual says to do, dont know if it's really necessary, probably is.
i've unbolted all the bolts holding the bellhousing onto the motor, and the bolts that are above the drive shafts that hold the tranny onto the motor, and have disconnected the rear tailshaft, and everything else that is connected and can hold it in...
it is dropped down and hanging from the motor, it will not release!

is it glued to the back of the motor or what?
i've shaken and bounced it, it just wont release from the motor.

is it worth seperating the transaxle from the other bit (can't remember the name) so that i will have less weight to handle when it does come off the motor?

and is getting it to go back on straight after i have put the new clutch on going to be a PIA as well?

thanks

[Highlander]

Did you remember to pull the input shaft out? it's behind three bolts on (OZ-Style) the passenger's side just behind the clutch arm connection. After you pull the three bolt cover, the input shaft is pulled using a bolt threaded into the back side. I haven't done it, I just remember that this is what you need to do to pull the trans out without the engine.

[Petros]

THere is a tiny 10mm bolt that holds a bracket for the heater hose on the left side of the engine (under the fuel pump) that you must remove. It is a stupid little bolt that goes through the bracket, the backing plate and into the bell housing. You can not pull the transaxle assembly unless this little bolt is removed.

There are 4 large 17mm bolts from the bell housing into the back of the engine block, several smaller ones, including 2 14mm starter bolts, the ground strap, the exhuast bracket, and the two side plates on the sides of the differential (you must remove these side plates all the way, 14 mm bolts).

I find it easier to keep the transaxle together as an assembly, I remove the drive staft at the diff and center carrier and it just slides out of the spline shaft at the back of the trans. Remember to remove the shift lever from the top and the 4wd lever linkage from under the car. Remove all the connectors or you might forget and break the wires, should be three of them. And yes it is necessary to pop the axles out of the front diff to remove the trans.

Good luck.

[gmeddy]

hmm
ok got all that done, but the input shaft doesn't seem to have a thread in the centre of it, i've looked into it with a torch and cant see one...

I can imagine that it is a good idea that it must be done this way, that way you can use the input shaft to align the clutch plate before reinstallation as well.

how heavy is this tranny gonna be when I do get it to come free? if there's a chance of it being so heavy it could break my arm or something then I should probably go get a trolly jack and cradle for the tranny to lay into... i guess the obvious answer is that's what I should do regardless hey?

I'm sick of laying under this thing and not getting much done! I was imagining i could do this job from beginning to end in one go!

[Petros]

removing the input shaft will not help break it free, it only helps to wiggle it out. I have removed these trans 6 or 7 times and have never removed it first. if you have all the bolts out you may have to lever it out, there are several alignment pins that can get corrosion and make it seem the bell housing is frozen to the block. You do have the side plates off the sides of the front diff to the sides of the block off don't you? These have to come all the way off the sides, not just unbolted from the diff. If you wiggle the tail shaft real hard side to side it usually breaks free.

If not, put a big pry bar against it and see if you can break it free, once loose you can jamb a pry bar into the gap and move the trans back. I have pulled and installed them by my self, the trans axle weighs perhaps 100-130lbs or so, I put some padding under it and wiggle it out and allow it to slip down onto the padding (it will hand on the input shaft so you only have to lower the back half of the weight). to install it I use two simple scissor jacks, or a floor jack and lift it into place and than push it home by hand. Once you get the input shaft in it does not take much lifting force to hold it up.

good luck

[Tercel__jon]

check that heater bolt petros mentioned. Thats what hung me up in the junkyard. After that bolt is free, it should slide right out. I would just throw an old tire under the trans to keep from hurting the case when it slides out, but thats just me. It is heavy, you wont be able to hold it with one arm.

The average amount of time is 4 hours. Thats the shift levers, both of em. The driveshaft and axles. the Crossmember bolts. The starter bolts. The 4 main bolts that hold it all together, and that blasted little 10mm petros mentioned. Oh, and the clutch cable, dont forget to unhook that.

[gmeddy]

ok thanks, yeah I got that little 10mm bolt out,
The mount brackets you call plates that attach the front diff to the motor, I had only unbolted the bottom, not fully removed, so I will get onto them this arvo and see if that helps free it up.

I will get a trolly jack if I can, that would be better than the little bottle jack I have under it at the moment.

I love how the book says, place a piece of wood between the motor and firewall before lowering the trans, but there is half a dozen hoses in the way!
talk about over-simplefied.

[Petros]

you have to remove each of these plates, each has two 14mm bolts in them. They will not allow you to withdraw the trans if they are in place, they hold it too tightly. You will also want to remove the half shafts, they just pop out with a large pry bar.