Brake Up-grades MR2 Parts Vented Rotors Corolla Spacer Figs

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timothygodden
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Re: Brake Up-grades MR2 Parts Vented Rotors Corolla Spacer Figs

Post by timothygodden » Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:58 am

helipilot77 wrote:So I realized after the fact when looking at my 4Runner that the brake reservoir cap was the exact size needed for the MR2 master cylinder and has the correct plug on it already.

Image

So any early pickup cap should work. Pre 95' I would guess
A reservoir cap of a n early Celica works too that's what I will be using on my mr2 master swap.

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Re: Brake Up-grades MR2 Parts Vented Rotors Corolla Spacer Figs

Post by LeeBiew » Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:27 am

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Re: Brake Up-grades MR2 Parts Vented Rotors Corolla Spacer F

Post by spencercat » Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:22 am

SynthDesign wrote:
Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:55 am
The calipers have to be from a tercel with vented rotors. I've seen 90, 91 and 92 with nonvented rotors. 92 plus have the vented disc to 95 I believe.

Also, Banjo bolt dimensions for the caliper, 10mm x1 x23mm length, the crush washers are 1.5mm thick with an ID of 10mm and an OD of 14mm.
Dredging up an old post, since I spent a couple of hours looking for a banjo bolt which fits the '86 MR2 caliper on my upgrade. From what I can tell, the Toyota part number is 90401-10015, and is called a Bolt, Union. Once the parts arrive I will confirm and if incorrect will revise this post.

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Re: Brake Up-grades MR2 Parts Vented Rotors Corolla Spacer Figs

Post by SynthDesign » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:23 pm

Why not just get a set of factory replacement lines for said caliper? Or aftermarket DOT ap. Stainless lines like Goodridge?
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Re: Brake Up-grades MR2 Parts Vented Rotors Corolla Spacer Figs

Post by stefando » Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:50 pm

This is an awesome writeup- so happy to know this is here when I finally upgrade my brakes next summer. Petros, thanks for all the effort you put into this and all of your tercel-ing, I've gotten to know this little car a lot more thanks to you. This is an extremely worth while endeavor, my wagon has the stock setup and it's at 50% on the pads, everything working properly and it is quite underwhelming... I could imagine stopping with bigger tires or pulling a trailer would be ridiculous..
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Re: Brake Up-grades MR2 Parts Vented Rotors Corolla Spacer Figs

Post by nerdsrule » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:56 am

Keeping this baby Alive!

Its time, the slow red rocket is due for a brake upgrade, or at least a caliper/rotor upgrade. Booster and MC someday maybe. I know I have seen mention somewhere of a early 90s golf rotor (I think), that had the same bolting pattern and same offset as t4wd needing no shims. I believe this was different that the HumbleBee upgrade using a larger 10.2" 98 golf rotor, which is the only golf related upgrade I can seem to find details on now. So my question is, am I imagining things? Is there a simple VW swap in, possibly of higher quality than an '86 MR2 or a '92 tercel rotor? If so, I assume this was paired with an 86 mr2 or 92 tercel caliper?

Creating a spacer is easy, but if there's a solid way around it with a better rotor... I will keep combing threads for that info, but if you have any insights, much appreciated.

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Re: Brake Up-grades MR2 Parts Vented Rotors Corolla Spacer Figs

Post by Petros » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:46 pm

if you go to enough effort, you can adapt any larger brakes to work. I am not aware of any VW calipers that will just bolt up to the Tercel steering knuckle mounts. I think the Corolla caliper will mount but it has a different offset, and it is otherwise very similar in size/operation.

I do not know the rotor is any better or not, that is up to the manufacturer. I imagine you can get drilled and slotted rotors for the VW, not really true for the Tercel as far as I know, but they will cost more. I am just happy to have rotors that will not overheat and warp.

the key features are the dia of the rotor, and the surface area of the caliper piston. changing either one will change the amount of brake power you have available (larger gives more). However, changing those will change the front to rear brake ratio. Or rather, the amount of stopping power delivered to the wheels. the factory worked out a "safe" front to rear brake ratio, in my set up I keep the these ratios the same. both the caliper piston size, and the rotor size, is the same. you get vented more durable rotor. the master cylinder up grade however, does increase the braking power to both front and back wheels without affect the front to rear bias.

If you choose to change to larger front rotors, or larger calipers (pistons), it may still work acceptably, if not there are adjustable proportioning valves you can purchase reblance the ratio to prevent premature wheel lock up.
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Re: Brake Up-grades MR2 Parts Vented Rotors Corolla Spacer Figs

Post by teranfirbt » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:51 am

The combo I came up with was rotors from an '89 Corolla GT-S (the FWD version) with calipers from a mid 90's Corolla (it's all I could find in the junkyard at the time). It required a 5/16" spacer behind the rotor to fit properly, which means you lose the hub centering spigot...

I have found that with some care and percussive adjustment (read: slowly tighten a tapered lug nut while hitting the tire with a hammer to make the taper center the wheel) that I don't have any issues with the wheel ending up centered on the hub.

This combo does lead to a bit more front brake power than stock, which is the safe direction from a lockup standpoint, but it does mean that stopping distances increase slightly. I'm OK with trading slightly longer stopping for having a lot more thermal mass in the brakes.

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Re: Brake Up-grades MR2 Parts Vented Rotors Corolla Spacer Figs

Post by nerdsrule » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:27 am

I guess I'm just looking more along the lines of replacing fronts with close-to-stock, just to avoid warping and improve braking a bit. Not exactly a performance car. I think that means some combination of mr2 "Senior Dos", and newer tercel bits, just because it seems like folks are getting away with 3mm spacers, and the swap is almost as easy as installing tercel parts.

Petros, you're right, no need for biggir rotors really, just creates early front lockup, and potential understeer issues, particularly on snow. I would only get into that if I were to fit GTI calipers, as Ive seen here, or some other disc caliper to the rear. Also, mostly it just happens that front calipers are on their way out at the moment, so why not.

My only other question is, should I be looking for anything other that reman calipers, and OEM, or close to OEM rotors? I see lots of aftermarket rotors for the Senior Dos (slotted, drilled, etc) but who says they're better?

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Re: Brake Up-grades MR2 Parts Vented Rotors Corolla Spacer Figs

Post by nerdsrule » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:05 am

Ok I need to read this thread more carefully, make that a 92+ tercel rotor, minimal offset, stock length studs. but same question- anything fancy, or just middle-of-the-road vented rotor from rockauto?

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Re: Brake Up-grades MR2 Parts Vented Rotors Corolla Spacer Figs

Post by Petros » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:11 pm

middle of the road vented rotors work fine. The extra mass, rotor thickness, and cooling by the vents is a vast improvement in warp resistance. the mr2 master with the larger booster is a much better way to increase braking power (shorter stopping distance) because it does not affect the front to rear braking bias. You will get noticeable reduce pedal pressure with the MR2 master cycl/booster swap. the vented rotors give you warp resistance.

You can get all the parts you need off of a '94 or newer fourth gen Tercel, the rotors, calipers and extra length flex hoses will all bolt up, with the 3mm (1/8") spacer under the rotor. if you buy new, make sure you get the whole caliper with the mounts, often a reman caliper will not include the mount (the old one will not work with that fist the 25 mm thick rotor). Calipers are usually fairly durable, so getting junk yard calipers, with mounts, usually means you can directly mount them on the tercel without replacing the seals. Just inspect them for any brake fluid leaks or corrosion around the seals when you look them over while it is still on the car.

One alternative is to buy the calipers with the mounts, and the flex hoses, from the wrecking yard and than buy new rotors. They are not that costly. if you do that just order the correct offset VW-golf rotors and you can skip the spacer. this means the center hub will engage the rim and the available wheel studs length is unchanged.

the drilled/slotted rotors improve stopping on hard stops. it allows brake materials and heated gasses at the interface between the rotor and pad to vent off. the drilling also allows better cooling, but some do not consider that slight improvement significant to justify the additional costs, presumably it saves some weight, but not that much. I like the look of it and may just buy a set of drilled rotors for that reason alone. the slots do offer measurable improvement for long hard stops, especially in the rain. many companies are offering slotted rotors for most cars these days, and are worth the extra cost, which is not that much more.

while you are at it, make sure your rear brakes are up to snuff. new rear wheel cycilders and brake shoes are cheap, so if you need them just go a head and take care it all at once. Check Rockauto for brake parts, they are usually a great price for clearance brake parts, usually in private label boxes (if possible, get Made in Japan brake parts).

good luck.
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Re: Brake Up-grades MR2 Parts Vented Rotors Corolla Spacer Figs

Post by nerdsrule » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:45 am

Thanks Petros,
Exactly what i'm looking for.

So as for swapping in vw golf rotors, everything I can find looks to be the right diameter and bolt pattern obviously, but they are a bit thicker, any issue with that? MR2s and 92+ tercs are .709" thick new, and the Golfs from something like '85+ are .780" thick new. That would be the best option. I do remember seeing vw rotors mentioned elsewhere but I dont think thickness was addressed.

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Re: Brake Up-grades MR2 Parts Vented Rotors Corolla Spacer Figs

Post by Petros » Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:29 pm

the caliper will accommodate the thickness, it just means the piston will be a bit further in or out, which it does to accommodate pad wear anyway. It will not harm a thing, as long at the caliper with new pads can open far enough (and even than, you can sand down the pads a little to make it work).

AS I recall the newer Tercel rotors were 25 mm thick (about an inch), but I might be misremembering that. The early 4th gen Tercel used unvented rotors about 12 mm thick (approx), it was later they put the vented ones on. That is a moot point if you are switching over to VW rotors.

I would like to get rotors with the separate alloy hub (anodized), like in the picture (used on race cars). but those are pretty pricy like $300-400 a pair. you can get slotted and drilled one piece cast rotors about $70. still costly, but not too bad compared to about $25 for a plain one.
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Re: Brake Up-grades MR2 Parts Vented Rotors Corolla Spacer Figs

Post by nerdsrule » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:17 pm

Yea stoptech seems to be the reasonable higher end option for either tercel or golf rotors. Thanks for that clarification on thickness, I thoughts that might be the case, but wasnt sure.
I'm pumped to do this swap. This helps me have a solid plan. we'll see, maybe I can come accross an mr2 booster and mc somewhere

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Re: Brake Up-grades MR2 Parts Vented Rotors Corolla Spacer Figs

Post by The Professor » Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:47 am

I have used Stoptech brake rotors on my WRX and I'm quite happy with them. I prefer slotted rotors vs. drilled, due to drilled rotors being known to crack, but on a Tercel you probably can't generate the heat necessary to damage a rotor like that, so moot point. On our cars, in fact, I think having solid rotor blanks would be preferred, to have a greater thermal mass to absorb brake heat. It does no good to be able to shed heat well if you can't absorb it all to begin with (hence the Petros thicker, vented rotor mod).

Petros, on a cast iron rotor the hub area is just painted or e-coated, only two-piece brake rotors with an aluminum hat can be anodized anodized.
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