Rebirth after 300K

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SynthDesign
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My tercel:: The General, 85 SR5 w/ Sunroof,Olive Drab paint, Black Interior, custom steel bumpers, Barto BC lift, 1.67L BUILT 3AC w/ Weber Carb. 346,000 miles and counting since restoration
Location: Seattle WA
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Re: Rebirth after 300K

Post by SynthDesign »

@Pertos,
I've read over what you posted a few times over and have many things to ponder regarding suspension setup. I'll keep you posted with my ideas.

As for the current problem..... The Toda cam is proving to be a bit too much I believe for our tercels. At least for daily driving. I now have roughly 650 miles and have developed a few clunks and am not happy with the mileage nor drive-ability. It was hard to break in the motor and now that I can push the RPM range, fuel consumption has gotten worse(12mph sprinted driving) and the stock wheels and tires are definably inappropriate. The vented rotors offer excellent braking!.... except the tires do not offer enough contact patch and prefer to skid instead of stop and break loose by just turning the wheel and accelerating. I also manage to shear most of the trans mount. It was used but in great shape. CV axle clunk is another thing. I never replaced those and it's probably time too. No clicks yet but I can get them to pop when I mash the gas. After having a few other people drive it, some are guessing in the range of 100hp, which is plausible, but being drivable is more important. I'd rather have less HP and not have to replace the transmission every 6 months.

This weekend I'm gonna pull the Toda cam out and put in a stock 4AC. The only difference I can see between the two is a bit longer duration(lobe shape is different). I'll try the factory one for a bit and see what difference it makes on the built head. It'll also give me a chance to practice adjusting the jets and tuning the carb.

This should tune the engine down a bit and make it a bit more MPG friendly....hopefully.
Vintage and Classic Toyota; Have you loved your Toyota today?
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Petros
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Re: Rebirth after 300K

Post by Petros »

I was thinking that is the case with a performance cam. You might try the Delta Cam regrind, I have that in mine and think it is a great street grind, I get 26-34 mpg. Cheap too, I think they want $69 exchange. A milder cam will definitely help drivability and MPG.

You might want to consider some kind of engine limiter for movement. the old hot rod guys would use a chain to limit how far the engine could move to save their engine mounts, you can use a good stiff shock from a rear axle. Or find something off another car that will dampen lateral movement of the engine when you goose the throttle. By softening the max movement it should save your mounts.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
SynthDesign
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Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:42 pm
My tercel:: The General, 85 SR5 w/ Sunroof,Olive Drab paint, Black Interior, custom steel bumpers, Barto BC lift, 1.67L BUILT 3AC w/ Weber Carb. 346,000 miles and counting since restoration
Location: Seattle WA
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Re: Rebirth after 300K

Post by SynthDesign »

I spoke with Scott at Delta Cams a few weeks ago. The cost for a regrind is now up to $90. Still super cheap. They just moved to a different place in Tacoma and I'll be going down there soon to drop off a cam for a 2tc and maybe just get one done for the 3/4ac engines too.

I've been thinking about mounting a dampener to the trans much like you mentioned. But what...

With the Barto BC lift I'm also thinking about making a strut tower brace and beefing up the front sway bar which is bit too light for the lift in addition to a rear sway bar.
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Petros
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Re: Rebirth after 300K

Post by Petros »

I have been working on strut tower brace for a while. Trying to adapt one I got off another car at pull-a-part for about $4.50 last year, I need to drill a few extra holes in the mount plates, but I think it will work.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
SynthDesign
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Posts: 826
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:42 pm
My tercel:: The General, 85 SR5 w/ Sunroof,Olive Drab paint, Black Interior, custom steel bumpers, Barto BC lift, 1.67L BUILT 3AC w/ Weber Carb. 346,000 miles and counting since restoration
Location: Seattle WA
Contact:

Re: Rebirth after 300K

Post by SynthDesign »

Problems so far.. @1,800 miles

I have destroyed a total of three good looking used trans mount and nice set of used CV axles that were fine when I put them in. I'm on my last trans mount and have ordered a replacement new toyota unit. I'm thinkin about trying poly engine mounts.
Replaced the axles with some rock auto reman'd units and it seams fine now

The stock 4ac cam seems to be working ok, but have excess fuel in exhaust which is leading me to believe I need to re-jet the carb for that cam.

Some secondary type of engine/trans dampener is in order.

The vented rotor/caliper upgrade seem to be one of the easiest and noticeable upgrades. I haven't warped a rotor and I've had a few good hard braking days. I will go to stainless lines and the MR2 AW11 brake master/booster combo Petros did.

The stock wheels and tires are proving to be very inadequate. You have to walk on eggshells to keep the wheels from skidding in hard braking. Also today, I was unable to gain traction from a stop up hill on tarmac in heavy rain. I pretty much did a 4WD burn out for a few seconds, ok maybe a minute or so as I ran it though the gears at a few different rpms tryin for traction, before I gave up and backed down and turned around. I'm gonna mount a set of factory mr2 wheels with 195/75/14's in the next few days. Should give a bit more contact patch to drive and stop with.

Last problem I'm workin out is the front shocks. I managed to blow up the passenger side KYB GR2 inserts. I think it's mostly the way I drive and the struts topping out hard with the camry springs. I'm going to try a set of 88 Toyota all-trac springs, and a few other possibilities, them maybe some leveling spacers.

The rear Lift feels and has worked great so far. Petros helped me pack in a MR2 engine/trans clip and make it home with no issues. The ride quality has been great. I still want to try a sway bar and have the mounts mocked up to fit it in. Soon


I almost have a full interior to go in. Working out the final touches and will take pics once it's in. Still no rear seats but I may just fab something up.



I gotta brag for a second and tell ya'll I even won two awards at the Puget Sound Toyota Owners Meet.
Best Tercel
Garage Plus Choice
t4wd award.jpg
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deejay1272
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Re: Rebirth after 300K

Post by deejay1272 »

Way to go, Synth! Looking forward to seeing some photos soon:)
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ARCHINSTL
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Re: Rebirth after 300K

Post by ARCHINSTL »

+ + + +
Tom M.
T4WD augury?
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit."
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SynthDesign
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Posts: 826
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:42 pm
My tercel:: The General, 85 SR5 w/ Sunroof,Olive Drab paint, Black Interior, custom steel bumpers, Barto BC lift, 1.67L BUILT 3AC w/ Weber Carb. 346,000 miles and counting since restoration
Location: Seattle WA
Contact:

Re: Rebirth after 300K

Post by SynthDesign »

I broke something in back.
I'm hearing this..
ting..

ting..

ting

noise
and the left rear brake is dragging.
I think I know what happened.

Guessing I threw a shoe.
Stupid drum brake shoe retainer clip has probably destroyed the hat and shoes.

E-brake still works..

Or is it rear diff acting up?
I just replaced or rebuilt all that less than 2,000 miles ago.

Sorry I had to rant for a second.


I must say, 14" wheels are the way to go. I installed a set of AW11 MR2 wheels, 14x6", with some crappy siped Toyo 195/60/14's and they ride great. No rub so far, but I have yet to turn it lock to lock. They were horrible on the MR2, but seem quite adequate on the tercel.


So why didn't Toyota do all all black interior door panel? I think it looks great all black. I fixed up some out of an 88 2WD wagon
interior 1.JPG
The seats match the fabric really well on the door panels
interior 2.JPG
Also, an observation, Ryno Liner destroys/gooey mess of plastic and interior sound deadening. Rustoleum Bedliner doesn't
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Vintage and Classic Toyota; Have you loved your Toyota today?
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Petros
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Re: Rebirth after 300K

Post by Petros »

looks great!

It would be nice if we could find someone that makes a one piece rubber floor mat, rather than the carpet. Perhaps we could make one with flat sections of rubber material and contact cement to make a custom fit one piece contoured floor mat.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
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dlb
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Re: Rebirth after 300K

Post by dlb »

synth, couple questions regarding your front strut problems. so you have barto's tercel/camry frankenstein strut, do you have the spacers to give you more lift as well? and when you mention topping out and blowing the inserts, are you saying that the springs extend the inserts beyond the full length to the point where they damage them? i'm curious because i've got some camry struts on their way to me now but want to be sure all is cool before i make the swap. i know another guy on here mentioned blowing an insert, but i don't remember bart having any problems.

i'm not going to do the cutting board additional lift, if that would help with the topping out situation. if i understand the topping out idea correctly. thanks man.
Last edited by dlb on Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Petros
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Re: Rebirth after 300K

Post by Petros »

Yes you have that correct, Snyth and I discussed this recently. The extra stiff springs puts the strut near the end of it's travel and rather than extending downward after it goes over a bump, it tops out instead. This damages the seal at the top of the strut.

The car should be set up so the strut is in the middle of its travel (about 5" total stroke, so it should "rest" as about 2.5" no more than 3" extension). Note that the actual wheel travel is more like 6 or 7 inches total. So either a softer spring, a shorter spring, or a longer stroke strut is needed. Both the Camry and Corolla GTS strut actually has a shorter stoke than the tercel stock strut. To raise the ride height you have to find a way of doing it that does not extend the strut if you are sticking with the stock strut. So you should use spacers to lower the upper mount.

Both Synth and I have been examining the different springs and struts off the first gen MR2 (AW11). The rear has heavy duty shocks with a little more travel, same approx length, and it has a progressive rate spring (gets stiffer as it is compressed). And it will fit on the Tercel front hub/knuckle. Also the MR2 front strut top mount will bolt right into the Tercel front strut mount, so this means adjustable and performance struts AND top strut mounts should be available for the Tercel too!

The front Tercel spring has a rate of about 273 lb/in, the GTS corolla/celica is about 342 lb/in, and the MR2 rear spring starts at 344 lb/in and progresses up to about 1300 lb/in. I do not know what it will do to the ride height, we will have to experiment with that soon.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
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dlb
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Re: Rebirth after 300K

Post by dlb »

hmmmmm. i wonder why bart has never had any problems with his camry springs. synth, do you know if your springs came from a 4- or 6-cylinder camry? i remember bart mentioning that the 6-cylinder might have heavier springs and that he couldn't say if they would work or not. if the springs that synth et al are using are at all longer or thicker than what bart used originally, i imagine that could cause these blown struts. am i on the right track?
SynthDesign
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My tercel:: The General, 85 SR5 w/ Sunroof,Olive Drab paint, Black Interior, custom steel bumpers, Barto BC lift, 1.67L BUILT 3AC w/ Weber Carb. 346,000 miles and counting since restoration
Location: Seattle WA
Contact:

Re: Rebirth after 300K

Post by SynthDesign »

So yep, No spacers so far on the front struts. Possibly soon if I need to level it out after I try a different spring. Hopefully a strut tower bar soon too.

I started this post to see if anyone had tried something else.
http://www.tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtop ... f=4&t=5893

AND again, I drive VERY aggressively. Yes, I 'jump" my tercel or have wheel lift on a weekly basis. I'm guessing that's why Barto hasn't had the same problem. Also a big factor is the condition of the springs from the donor vehicle. I picked a 84 Camry with very low mileage, 124,456 Miles, with major rear end damage. I'm guessing the springs had little to no sag compared to stock. Also, Barto's pick was from a Canadian model..., would it be different than in the states?
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dlb
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Re: Rebirth after 300K

Post by dlb »

possibly could be a canada/us thing, i'm not sure. i think the new-ish, no sag springs would have something to do with it. did you happen to notice if your donor car was a 6-cylinder? that's what i'm leaning towards, as the bigger engine would likely require heavier springs.
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Petros
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Re: Rebirth after 300K

Post by Petros »

SynthDesign wrote: Also, Barto's pick was from a Canadian model..., would it be different than in the states?
possible but not likely, I think they come in through the same port in North America. All of the other Toyota cars I have seen have the same specs as USA. They do have a few brands up there that we do not have, but I think that is a matter of meeting US DOT standards.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
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