Frustrated

[ptothej]

This is more of a minor rant then anything.. I know there are lotsa posts on making more power out of these cars, or even swapping engines.. but holy shit its frustrating when you take your car out into the snow and all it does is bog out in 4wd and then lose momentum and get stuck or not get stuck but just stop because it bogged and your already in first gear hahahahaha, ARGGGHHH!!! I dont want to spend any money on it.. well to a certain extent, because after all it is only a winter beater and I have bigger and better things to spend my weak wages on. But to conclude this rant, I am happy with the car.. I just dont like the weak power.. what was Toyota thinking?!!

[keith]

I don't know how old you are, but from the early 70's to the late 80"s, if you had a car that could get to 60 mph in under 15 sec, it was considered "peppy". The technology just wasn't there yet.

My father in law had a 73 Ford with a 400 cu in engine that made 110 hp. In a 4600 lb wagon with an automatic tranny, it would be hard pressed to keep up with the Tercel. That period really sucked for some of us that started driving in the 60's and were used to 0-60 in 8 seconds or less. I kept my 66 Dodge wagon until 1992 for that reason.

[shonuffisthemaster]

I've never owned a car with more than 72 HP, I guess its all perspective. I kind of think the tercel is peppy, heck you can cherp the tires in 2nd! It sure is alot peppy-er than the mid 70's full sized V6 buic station wagon I learned to drive on, or my '79 datsun 210. Yes, compared to today's cars it is a snail, but with a little skill and a manual tranny you really don't need gobs of power.

[Mac]

my dad in the 60's had a Fiat 124 spyder that had 100HP and could do 100MPH, 4 wheel disc brakes too.

the technology was there, but in the American/Canadian market expectations of power were probably pretty low and Toyota only makes things as good as they have to, to an extent, more so now than in the 80's

but anyways, your tercel sounds exceptionally bad, my tercel with its old engine that ran on 3 cylinders and had a ton of vacuum leaks didn't bog out and stall in the snow like that.

you should check your plugs, spray a can of carb clean into the carb when its running (if its dirty in there, take off the air filter housing and look in) and manipulate the throttle with your hand to keep it from stalling, check the cap and rotor, and if the vacuum lines are older than 5 years, buy 7' of hose and replace it all, it will take you about 1/2 to 1 hour to replace the hoses.

[Logbear]

I drive my Tercel in the snow quite a bit and the only problem it ever has is when the snow is just so deep that it starts pushing snow and high-centers. I've always had enough power to spin the tires if I want too. And I've never been stuck to the point of having to get pulled out. The tercel does better than my F350 4X4. If the snow is compact, the Tercel is light enough that it rides on top of the snow. The big truck bogs down. And the Tercel has never had tire chains on, and I've driven on any kind of ice or snow that the Pacific Northwest can throw at it.
When the Tercel turned over 300,000 miles, I took it for a drive up to the snow.
Oh there is one other problem and you can see it in the picture. The snow was so deep that the doors hit the snow when I went to get out. But the good old Tercel just kept going. The depth of snow in the picture isn't quite enough to stop it.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/45257111@N ... 3839880456

[ptothej]

Havent been on in awhile, yes the Tercel has been my most weakest slowest etc vehicle I have ever owned hahah, so I guess Im used of driving with more power. The car itself seems to be what should be expected out of it.. but I dont know if this snow is really harsh or what because when I was stopped, I would basically have to rev it and dump the clutch, if not I would have to ride the shit out of it.. extra low is too much and it just spins too easily. the snow Im in has been melted then froze then melted then froze, and some snowmobilers have packed it.. I dont know.

[Mickey_D]

That's odd because mine was best at home in the snow. It did much better in low traction situations than it did on dry roads!

I'm wondering if there's a possibility something is binding up in your drivetrain causing the problems. Have you tried it in 4WD on gravel? Does it do fine there?

I know I plowed mine through some hefty crap on my drive back and forth to Crookston. Picking up my carpoolers I tended to have to go through some serious mountains of junk that my 81 Chev full size 4X$ (not a typo, 6mpg) would shudder at. And only once did I ever have to make a second run at it. And that was because I bounced off the road and had to remake my track to get where I was going WITHOUT using a ditch. I figured if I was having trouble it would take a tracked vehicle to get me out, so opted out of the ditch route.

[hberdan]

My 87 wagon does great in the snow! At least now with the replaced tranny, and at almost 300K miles...and it drives fine on the highway, too, but is not so fast...65 mph is fast in that car! But it gets me everywhere! Went skiing a couple days ago, drove it 10 miles up a snowy road to the trailhead--drove thru some 8-10" drifts, no problemo. The granny gear is fantastic, all my friends with Subarus are jealous of the on/off 4wd and the extra low gear! (if not the slower speed)
And I'm getting 27mph with all that.

[splatterdog]

Underpowered? Yes. Could be a tie for my weakest car ever with the 83 Colt hatchback(pre-weber anyways).

However. Throw some snow down, or even better, alot, and the tables are turned at least 100% on most cars. Traction to weight ratio can give them an edge over trucks and suv's also. I have yet to be beat by anyone so far this winter when the snow is flyin.

[takza]

I've run into the same kind of old refroze and half melted stuff...it it's deep enough for the floorpan to hit....you will notice a lack of power...just like in deep dry sand. Then you'll see why they like the big V8s in 4WD.

In dry powder you could put a snow blade on front and plow the road.

[ptothej]

Response to Mickey D: Car will drive dry/wet roads no problem in 4x4, a bit less powerful but will do.

Hberdan: Mine was unstoppable till christmas and then this most recent time up to the same spot, and whatever snow that is, is too heavy and will not let the car drive, also this last time I couldnt really steer either.. and it was up to the bottom of the doors.. but depth shouldnt matter, because Ive gone thru that depth before no problem.

Takza: I do belive you are on the same page as me, it has to be the snow and the 1.5 not producing the umph to get thru, but still frustrating!

[Lazymechanic]

The magic of this car is that it is the last in an evolution that started with the gas crunch of the mid-seventies. The honda civic, VW rabbit, dodge omni/plymouth horizon, all pushed 40 mpg. The tercel went on to give you real cargo space and 4wd and only 38mpg. Now that we're all driving 20+ year old models, power and mileage are a bit less. I've had several sources suggest that with a motor that old, the cam has actually worn enough to significantly afffect performance. I'm about to sink coin into finding out for myself. Chances are, EVERYTHING is living up to less than its potential. Bring a few things back up to factory spec. and see what a difference it makes. . .

[Petros]

Presuming it is not burning too much oil, it might be possible to get a lot more power with a head job and it will cost a lot less than even a Weber carb replacement.

Pull the head and resurface it by milling about .040 off to raise the CR. With the valves out clean up and enlarge the ports as much as practical, and replace the cam with a performance regrind from Delta Cams in Tacoma WA (only $29 exchange, plus shipping).

The gaskets, the machine work and the cam regrind should be done for about $100-150. You might consider replacing the exhaust valves while you are at it (about $8 each), and have the seats reground, regrind the intakes.

This should give you about a 10 hp increase, replace the exhaust with a larger performance system for another few hps. This will also give you the majority of any performance increase that can be had cheap, and it is less work than a swap or webber carb change. Everything fits right where it is supposed to.

It is a fair amount of work (the same as a head gasket replacement, with a valve job), but it is not expensive and will make the car a better performing with no effect to the fuel economy.

If you are going to rering or rebuild the rest of the engine than I would go max overbore (1 mm or .040" over) and replace the pistons with flat top ones from Sealed Power (about $25 each). If you get the flywheel out, have it lightened and rebalanced, it is worth it (will not give you more power, but will improve the throttle response).

These changes are strait-forward to do, fairly inexpensive (especially if you have to rebuild the head or engine anyway) and make the performance good enough where you will not long for a different engine. I am quite happy with mine. The only other thing I want now is to get rid of that carb and go to EFI, not because of performance, but because I hate carbs (too much trouble). Though considering how much work a change over would be, I will likely never do it.

[Lazymechanic]

My stock tercel SR5 with 147k, burning oil, and missing top gear will do 98mph on a flat straight away. I lose 8mph in wind resistance when the temp goes down to the teens. My last three SR5 wagons got pretty much the same performance with lots of miles on the odo and burning oil, up to 105 with all the gears working. I'm taking all the advice in about where to get a cam and potentially shaving the head though. I was also thinking about ceramic coating the combustion chamber and piston face. The insulation should offset the extra heat from overbore and any other compression raising changes. Any thoughts?

[Mac]

98MPH in 4th gear? wow!

my tercel has a hard time hitting 86mph with its 4AC in 4th gear.

I think theres some more gremlins to track down....