New to me Tercel rundown

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Murph
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My tercel:: 1987 4wd Wagon

Re: New to me Tercel rundown

Post by Murph »

Nordical25 wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 11:44 pm It could be a possibility that this seal surface between intake manifold and exhaust manifold could be leaking.

What is that area on the left side of your exhaust manifold under "03"-stamp? Could there be a minor crack or why is that surface so different from remaining part of manifold?
That's what my thought is. That's where that heat shield gets sandwiched and acts as a "gasket". But since that's corroded around the seal that's my best guess as the source of the leak.

I went ahead and cut off the part of the heat shield that gets sandwiched and cleaned up the mating surfaces for both manifolds. Gonna seal it up and get everything back together and cross my fingers
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Nordical25
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My tercel:: 2 4wd 1987's. One with 4a, other with 3a
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Re: New to me Tercel rundown

Post by Nordical25 »

Yes, please let us know if that fixes the leak.
Murph
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My tercel:: 1987 4wd Wagon

Re: New to me Tercel rundown

Post by Murph »

Ok I have been able to get some done on the Terc the last few days.

I was able to cut off the sandwiched part of the heat shield between the manifolds and get that sealed up. That seems to have sealed up nicely as there is no obvious air leak coming from that area like there was before. In the process of putting everything back together one of the bolts that connects the manifold to the head cross-threaded about halfway in. So, back apart again.. unfortunately its one of the bolts that is only accessed through the little space between both manifolds.

Got that hole redrilled and re-tapped to a different thread size, and everything went back together nicely. I was able to get all the bolts and stud nuts connecting the manifolds to the head torqued to spec.

I seem to be having the same issues as some of some other previous posters with no obvious answers.

There is still an air leak putting out exhaust like "smoke" from the intake side. Manifold gasket is new, I've confirmed manifold to manifold seal is not leaking anymore. As I've read through previous posts I have seen though not confirmed that a leaking HG can cause this? Is there blow by gas that gets blocked or rerouted by the HG at some point that would be the source of the leak? The PO had done the HG not even 2k miles ago, badging on the HG is Felpro. There was no smoke to be had when I bought it, not cold, not warm. Now the smoke is obvious, looks and smells like exhaust or blow by. That makes me think it is something not sealed perfect since I've had it and worked on it, not a deeper issue. Drives great on the highway with ample power for that little motor.

The other place I'm struggling is the idle, when I bought it it drove fantastic but would die on idle unless you fluttered the gas a little, then it was fine. When I've had it back together to check for the exhaust leak, it starts great and idles right about 1000rpm then dies as the choke starts to open as it warms up. It will start to drop rpm then sputter out.

This isn't my first time working on old Toyotas so I know they can be tricky as things start to wear, but it is my first time working on a carb so any advice or extra info is greatly appreciated.

I will try to put up some videos of the leak and idle this afternoon.
Murph
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My tercel:: 1987 4wd Wagon

Re: New to me Tercel rundown

Post by Murph »

Ok I was able to go out and take some vids of the motor.
The first one is right after a cold start, everything sounds and looks good.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/C4SPFFDkNJ7GRTdj9

This one is of the leak at its peak before the accessory fan kicks on and dissipates everything.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/NZfdTxc7Utg4kVwP6

This is about 10 min of running. Funny thing is today it ran no problem, I turned it off shortly after this video. But no sputtering or rpms dropping out.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/8zDrya3kpFxDDUQa9

Bottom link should go to an album with all 3 videos.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Ny5CVHUrsRTv1ZWH7

While it was running for more than a few minutes I was able to make some better observations than before
--Starting fluid sprayed anywhere near the manifold complex does cause rpms to go up, could not narrow down any further than that. So more new hoses and gaskets are in the cart.
--Idle adjust screw once warm did not make a difference doing one full turn either way, rpms were consistently at about 1000 once warm
--Rpms did fluctuate slightly in a cyclical pattern, maybe a difference of 50rpms between the high and the low. Rpms started at 1200 when cold and worked down to the 950-1000 mark when warm.
--no pinging at all, no leaks, maybe some slight valve chatter but that's an easy one

so my question is what would yall recommend as my next steps as far as testing things and new parts, and am I missing anything obvious? I don't mind shelling out for new gaskets and hoses especially if that makes for an easy fix, but I would like to get this up and running asap as I have some major plans for my 88' 4runner that I need to get going.

I do have a local guy I am going to ask tomorrow and see if he can take a look at it and spot anything I missed or work some magic (he designed, built, and raced an electric car out of his garage up the Pikes Peak Hill Climb)
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Nordical25
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Re: New to me Tercel rundown

Post by Nordical25 »

Thank you for showing us some video material of running motor.

Have you just filled in new cooling fluids and emptied the system before that? If yes, then it can be just water steam from cooling system including radiator. Mine smokes like that after coolant change. It is totally normal in that case. And has your Tercels exhaust gas a bit darker tone because then that would not be exhaust gas?

And you are missing the tube between air filter and air intake hole. Could it be that the start spray gets into air filter?

I would do a 30 minute test drive and see how it runs. Just make sure that you have enough coolant and motor oil. And see after 15 minutes that you have no leaks.
Murph
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My tercel:: 1987 4wd Wagon

Re: New to me Tercel rundown

Post by Murph »

Thank you Nordical25 for the reply. I did do a coolant flush and change while everything was out. That is good to know about the steam. I wondered about the spray getting into that hole as well, but I was able to put a "Straw" on the spray bottle to get it down and under the air cleaner unit.

I was able to take it for a small test drive and it ran great, when I got home I let it idle in the driveway to monitor and didn't see any obvious air leak coming up. It did start to idle a little rough, sounded like it was going to sputter out at about 800-850rpms, but never did. The cyclical rpm pattern is still present when at idle so maybe a small vacuum leak somewhere. I am thinking proper carb adjustment for sure, then see how that pans out.

There is small oil leak on the bottom end that looks like either under the oil pump or from the oil pan gasket, it is only a couple drops as it cools down though.

I will be hopefully taking it out for another test drive later today.
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NWMO
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Re: New to me Tercel rundown

Post by NWMO »

Murph,

Getting a perfect, consistent idle may not be worth chasing. As long as it doesn’t die or rev stupid high when cold, you’re pretty close.
Psalm 37:4 "Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart"

In remembrance of my friend ARCHINSTL:

T4WD augury?
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit."
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"

"Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates."
Mark Twain
xirdneh
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Re: New to me Tercel rundown

Post by xirdneh »

Between exh and intake manifolds a homemade copper gasket should work
Love those Tercell 4x4 wagons but they sure suffer from road noise.
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NWMO
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Re: New to me Tercel rundown

Post by NWMO »

I’ve never used it, but something like this may help.

https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead ... s=2&adurl=
Psalm 37:4 "Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart"

In remembrance of my friend ARCHINSTL:

T4WD augury?
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit."
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"

"Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates."
Mark Twain
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Petros
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Re: New to me Tercel rundown

Post by Petros »

you can fabricate a gasket from stock gasket sheet material. also a sheet of soft copper or aluminum should work to make a metal gasket too.

your engine sounds like it has a vacuum leak into the intake system. check for leaks using some spar starter fluid, with it running, puff the fluid at various places around the intake manifold. test it by puffing it down the carb, the engine should speed up a bit, that is how you locate a vac leak. when it sucks in the extra fuel at the leak it will speed up. it could be bad vac line, disconnected line, bad gasket, or cracked manifold, or cracked/bad vac operated component.

good luck.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
Murph
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My tercel:: 1987 4wd Wagon

Re: New to me Tercel rundown

Post by Murph »

Thank you all for the replies, my apologies for lack of updates as I have not been online for a while!

An update on the Tercel.
-Idle is fixed for the most part, once warm it idles very nice between 800-1000rpm. Sometime when cold it'll sit a little lower at closer to 600rpm.
-For the in between exhaust/intake manifold leak I ended up using some steel wool coated in high temp copper permatex that I was able to roll into a surprisingly nice little gasket that sealed that right up.
-Oil leak ended up being front main so just an easy afternoon fix. UV dye is a lifesaver when tracking and narrowing down oil leaks.

Coming in the mail I've got; breaks front and rear to rebuild, new springs and shocks for the front, Monroe air shocks in the rear, carb rebuild kit, speakers and some other little things.
Goal is to have it winter and road trip ready by Thanksgiving 😎

Anything else you all recommend or can think of to take care of would be greatly appreciated. I am also looking to source a front driver's side window regulator, and passenger side head lamp assemble and tail light assembly if anyone has any leads that would be awesome.

I will post some progress pics and updates as I knock some things off the list
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