Front Sway bar bracket captive nut problem

How-to's and repair secrets for your 4WD can be found here. Have a question? Ask it in here!
Post Reply
Grendle
Member
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:44 am

Front Sway bar bracket captive nut problem

Post by Grendle »

Working on refreshing front suspension on my $325 Tercel, and one of the front sway bar bracket bolts came about 3/4 of the way out and no further. It doesn't seem stripped, because even putting downward pressure on the bracket isn't doing a thing; seems more like the weld on the captive nut broke and it's just spinning.
The closest thread I could find for a solution was this one, which suggested using helicoil: [url]viewtopic.php?p=61045#p61045/url]. I haven't used too many helicoils, but looking at the design, it seems like it wouldn't work without the captive nut in place to thread into. Any ideas?
Grendle
Member
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:44 am

Re: Front Sway bar bracket captive nut problem

Post by Grendle »

Right now I'm thinking blind rivet nut or jack nut would probably be smarter than helicoil if the captive nut really is detached.
User avatar
NWMO
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 1615
Joined: Wed May 20, 2015 1:08 pm

Re: Front Sway bar bracket captive nut problem

Post by NWMO »

I don’t think a helicoil would work. The metal is likely not thick enough. If you cut the bolt and let the nut/bolt end fall out of the way, you could try to drill a larger hole to intall the nut in the hole and weld it.
Psalm 37:4 "Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart"

In remembrance of my friend ARCHINSTL:

T4WD augury?
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit."
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"

"Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates."
Mark Twain
User avatar
Petros
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 11930
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:31 pm
My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: Front Sway bar bracket captive nut problem

Post by Petros »

I had this happen in another location. typical the welded on nut inside the frame broke loose. your only real option is to cut off the bolt and get everything out of the way, and than install a nut on the back side if you can access it. Mine was on the lower control arm of the front suspension. I cut the frame open, welded a doubler plate in place behind where the old one was located, with a new nut welded in place. The frame had to be than welded closed for the hole in the frame where I had to cut open. the final product is stronger, stiffer and will not likely fail again made of steel plate, rather than thin body sheet metal.

I doubt the frame will be that much trouble at the sway bar mounts, there may be access to the back of where the nut goes without having to cut a hole in the frame.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
User avatar
eightyfive4WD
Advanced Member
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:59 pm
My tercel:: 1985 Tercel 4WD 5 speed wagon
Location: Arizona

Re: Front Sway bar bracket captive nut problem

Post by eightyfive4WD »

Grendle wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 5:56 pm Right now I'm thinking blind rivet nut or jack nut would probably be smarter than helicoil if the captive nut really is detached.
I had to make a similar recent repair to my Tercel in the same location. A rivet nut tool worked out great in my case. I made a post detailing this on another forum, with several pictures for context. I included details on the bolt and rivet nut size I used to make the repair. You can check it out here, the details and pictures start at post #49:
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/dia ... 174/page-3

Hope this helps you out!

P.S. The rivet nut tool is ~$50 from Harbor Freight and I'm sure you can find about 1,000 other uses for it down the road. Money well spent:
https://www.harborfreight.com/10-in-pro ... 58078.html
1985 Toyota Tercel DLX 4WD 5 spd wagon (manual swapped, daily driver)
2007 Toyota Tacoma TRD 4WD access cab long bed (road trip/adventure-mobile)
User avatar
dlb
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 7305
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:03 pm
My tercel:: '87 sr5, '83 dlx parts car
Location: bc, canada

Re: Front Sway bar bracket captive nut problem

Post by dlb »

eightyfive4WD wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 2:10 pm A rivet nut tool worked out great in my case.
I like this idea. I've used riv-nuts on a few projects and was amazed how handy they were.
Grendle
Member
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:44 am

Re: Front Sway bar bracket captive nut problem

Post by Grendle »

Thanks! I ended up ordering stainless M10x1.5 rivet nuts Monday and getting an allen head replacement bolt. And the poor man's rivet nut tool - a lock washer, an M12 nut, and a longer bolt.

I did some long overdue bike maintenance from my AZT wash last October this week, and then it rained, so I'll be doing the rivnut this weekend if it stays clear. At least my bike commute is much smoother after the tune-up.
Grendle
Member
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:44 am

Re: Front Sway bar bracket captive nut problem

Post by Grendle »

28B363BC-A14C-4D96-9FBF-6A3C14358000.jpeg
The rivet nut worked great. I'll post a quick step by step later, but the basics were a stainless M10 coarse threaded rivet nut, angle grinder to cut off the old bolt, a reaming bit to ream the existing hole out to 1/2", and the poor man's nut setter. The other one on that side went back in a little rough, so I'm guessing if I have to pull the sway bar again in the future I'll double down on the rivet nuts, but that seems like a great option so far. The SuperPro replacements are great; now I just need to swap out the rear suspension bushings to stiffen the rear end up a bit as well.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Grendle
Member
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:44 am

Re: Front Sway bar bracket captive nut problem

Post by Grendle »

(I have no idea why that photo flipped upside down when attached, but y'all get the idea)
User avatar
dlb
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 7305
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:03 pm
My tercel:: '87 sr5, '83 dlx parts car
Location: bc, canada

Re: Front Sway bar bracket captive nut problem

Post by dlb »

Grendle wrote: Sat Apr 02, 2022 1:33 pm The other one on that side went back in a little rough, so I'm guessing if I have to pull the sway bar again in the future I'll double down on the rivet nuts, but that seems like a great option so far.
If you have a tap and die set, I would try that on the other nut and bolt first, then grease the bolt up with some anti-seize before re-installing it. Whenever working on undercarriage stuff, I found the threads were pretty rough even when they looked ok. Cleaning them up with a tap and die always did wonders for me for reinstalling things.

That said, the anti-sway bar mounts can be a little finicky to get back in at the best of times. Sometimes it takes a lot of cautious fiddling to get the bolts angled in just right.
Grendle
Member
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:44 am

Re: Front Sway bar bracket captive nut problem

Post by Grendle »

dlb wrote: Sat Apr 02, 2022 3:49 pm That said, the anti-sway bar mounts can be a little finicky to get back in at the best of times. Sometimes it takes a lot of cautious fiddling to get the bolts angled in just right.
That's actually part of why I considered replacing it with another rivet nut. I didn't chase the threads, but did use anti seize. I don't think the old fatigued metal did any favors with how finicky re-mounting the sway bar was. First try i threadded the new bolt first because I was scared of how well it would hold, and the old one was a bear, so I backed off. After starting by threading the old bolt most of the way though, the new side went in like a dream.

That said, I doubt I'm going to need to mess with the SuperPro replacements any time soon.
User avatar
eightyfive4WD
Advanced Member
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:59 pm
My tercel:: 1985 Tercel 4WD 5 speed wagon
Location: Arizona

Re: Front Sway bar bracket captive nut problem

Post by eightyfive4WD »

I know that it is somewhat common to install rivet nuts without the proper tool; when doing so, how do you gauge when the rivet nut has been crimped enough in place to fully seat?
1985 Toyota Tercel DLX 4WD 5 spd wagon (manual swapped, daily driver)
2007 Toyota Tacoma TRD 4WD access cab long bed (road trip/adventure-mobile)
User avatar
Petros
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 11930
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:31 pm
My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: Front Sway bar bracket captive nut problem

Post by Petros »

eightyfive4WD wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 8:33 pm I know that it is somewhat common to install rivet nuts without the proper tool; when doing so, how do you gauge when the rivet nut has been crimped enough in place to fully seat?
Usually you can feel it seat. the soft riv-nut housing is yielding as you tighten the bolt and it deforms the riv-nut. when it is seated the bolt gets more difficult to turn. it just stops turning when the riv-nut is fully deformed and seated. you can also give it a visual inspection.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
Grendle
Member
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:44 am

Re: Front Sway bar bracket captive nut problem

Post by Grendle »

Petros is right. I only torqued it with my long ratchet; no cheater bar and not the breaker bar. But I was also playing a little dirty because the stainless riv nuts take more way torque to seat than the sway bar mount nuts, so I figured:

a) if it did start to spin while i was backing out the seating bolt, I could always just torque it tighter, and
b) if it didn't spin when loosening the heavily torqued bolt, it shouldn't spin when tightening the actual bolt less.

I'm a pretty big fan of rivet nuts at this point. Both of my outer mounting bolts for the plastic skid plate sheared when I was removing, and I'm leaning towards replacing them the same way, with sturdier bolts.
Post Reply