Clutch Chatter/Vibration

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NWMO
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Re: Clutch Chatter/Vibration

Post by NWMO »

Nimai,

It was explained to me that the “step” measurement was best maintained. Thus, if you took .010” off the flywheel face, you would want to take 0.010” off the p/p mounting surface as well. This keeps everything in the same “relative” location one to another. Here is a pic of my re-surfaced flywheel and you can see the “outer” face the p/p bolts to has been removed as well. There is a range for the step, so it may not be necessay every time, but should be checked.

Chris
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jimcrazy
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Re: Clutch Chatter/Vibration

Post by jimcrazy »

the step on the flywheel provides the proper clamping pressure on the clutch disc by the pressure plate,,less step is like having a wore out clutch disc,,when a refaced my flywheel i took a extra .005 off the step just to reduce slippage
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NWMO
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Re: Clutch Chatter/Vibration

Post by NWMO »

Thanks jimcrazy, that makes sense.
Psalm 37:4 "Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart"

In remembrance of my friend ARCHINSTL:

T4WD augury?
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit."
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"

"Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates."
Mark Twain
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Nimai_SR5Wagon
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My tercel:: 1984 SR5 Wagon
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Re: Clutch Chatter/Vibration

Post by Nimai_SR5Wagon »

Ah okay that makes sense, I will definitely be looking into that.

Thanks Chris and Jim!
Nimai

1984 Tercel Wagon SR5
1983 Pickup 22R full rebuild project
2018 Civic Sport Hatch
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NWMO
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Re: Clutch Chatter/Vibration

Post by NWMO »

The slowing of the engine clearly points to the failed throw out bearing IMO. Pedal height? If adjusted too high, could you "pinch" the t/o bearing at max travel creating increased wear? What does the "fork" look like? If the fork was bent, cracked or such, you could run into this due to differential pressure on the throw out bearing. I assume the center part that slides into the t/o bearing and over the shaft was a smooth (able to slide easily) fit over the output shaft housing, but "fit" well enough there was little to no play? I don't see any signs of abnormal wear on the outside of the shaft. If I zoom in on the clutch forks, it appears one may be worn at and angle (but it's hard when zooming in on photos).

Chris
Psalm 37:4 "Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart"

In remembrance of my friend ARCHINSTL:

T4WD augury?
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit."
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"

"Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates."
Mark Twain
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Nimai_SR5Wagon
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My tercel:: 1984 SR5 Wagon
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Re: Clutch Chatter/Vibration

Post by Nimai_SR5Wagon »

Chris,

I replaced the sector and paw in the pedal assembly, also bought a clutch cable (when i had initially had chatter before the first attempt to fix it) but its been difficult to confirm the length is correct with the fact that the clutch hasnt worked properly anyways. Ive noticed that when the cable is hooked to the lever, on the outside of the bellhousing, i can reach in from the engine bay and push the lever back quite far, basically bringing the T/O further from the pressure plate ( telling me the cable is already pulling the T/O bearing towards the PP) so maybe to your point - in another way - the T/O bearing is being engaged too soon and "pinched" too tight... something i can look into forsure.

Actually the more i think about it that could be an issue... maybe my cable is too short and just smashing the T/O bearing into the PP way too much when i put the pedal all the way to the floor.. that definitely needs to be looked into. I thought i bought a tercel OEM cable.. but its been too long.

When the chatter was occurring i would try to barely press the pedal down and put it into gear but it wouldn't go into gear. Id have to press the pedal all the way down enduring the violent chatter and then i could go into gear and then with the pedal still down i would be releasing slowly and the clutch would disengage and engage rapidly during the chatter "hopping" the car forward, and id feel an oscillating feeling on my clutch foot.

* OR it would completely stall the engine when i pressed the pedal down...

The fork is worn and the T/O hub is worn on the tabs, it I.D. fit nicely on the shaft.

I purchased a new OEM fork from a Japanese warehouse through megazip.net but couldnt find a replacement hub unfortunately
Nimai

1984 Tercel Wagon SR5
1983 Pickup 22R full rebuild project
2018 Civic Sport Hatch
jimcrazy
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Re: Clutch Chatter/Vibration

Post by jimcrazy »

it would stall the engine,,,,you may have the thrust washers gone on the crank shaft.... shoving the crank ahead when you push the pedal down ..any thing shinny in the engine oil ...its just a thought but some things not right
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Nimai_SR5Wagon
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Re: Clutch Chatter/Vibration

Post by Nimai_SR5Wagon »

I’ve kept a close eye on the engine oil when I changed it and I saw hardly (if any) metallic glitter. I’ll change it again soon to check again..

The engine runs strong and has good pull when in gear…. And once it’s in gear it’s smooth, just getting it in there is rough… also 300,000 miles so really anything could be happening!

Im making a mental list of things to do, I’ll write it up on here when my parts come in. Then give it a week or so for y’all to give me some more pointers.

I think at this point I just gotta reinstall with the new OEM bearing and make sure everything is clean and a few other things and do the process of elimination if all that stuff doesn’t work… only thing to really do is just get in there haha.

I bought a new Aisin Clutch kit
OEM pilot and T/O bearing to use
T/O bearing hub retainer clip thingy
Fork

You guys have been a great help, I really appreciate it.
Nimai

1984 Tercel Wagon SR5
1983 Pickup 22R full rebuild project
2018 Civic Sport Hatch
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NWMO
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Re: Clutch Chatter/Vibration

Post by NWMO »

Nimai,
maybe my cable is too short and just smashing the T/O bearing into the PP way too much when i put the pedal all the way to the floor.
There are pedal height adjustments on FSM CL-3 that are helpful. The right cable with too much pedal height might create the same issues as a short cable. Keep digging, it would sure be nice to find your likely culprit before going back together. But, if you are thurough and can’t find anything, you may not have a choice but to assume it was a faulty t/o bearing.

Chris
Psalm 37:4 "Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart"

In remembrance of my friend ARCHINSTL:

T4WD augury?
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit."
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"

"Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates."
Mark Twain
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Nimai_SR5Wagon
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Re: Clutch Chatter/Vibration

Post by Nimai_SR5Wagon »

Chris,

I was looking at the FSM and noticed those pedal adjustment specs, i dont remember ever adjusting according to something like that, the "6 teeth" seems familiar though, i will be making sure its in spec when i re install. Very possible the pedal height isnt ideal...

Also i noticed on the FSM CL-2 in troubleshooting that a cause for grabs/chatter is "Engine mounts loose" when i was dropping my trans i could shift the engine, the weight of the trans would pivot the engine backwards.... now i have something else to check... maybe my mounts are trash too. Something else to check off the list.
Nimai

1984 Tercel Wagon SR5
1983 Pickup 22R full rebuild project
2018 Civic Sport Hatch
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Nimai_SR5Wagon
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Re: Clutch Chatter/Vibration

Post by Nimai_SR5Wagon »

Motor mounts are definitely bad I can pull on the engine with very little force with one arm… easily moved 3-5inches

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Nimai

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1983 Pickup 22R full rebuild project
2018 Civic Sport Hatch
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Nimai_SR5Wagon
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Re: Clutch Chatter/Vibration

Post by Nimai_SR5Wagon »

Well, i ordered a AISIN clutch from rockauto, part number CKT-010 but Aisin packaged the wrong clutch and packaged a Toyota Surf clutch CTX-106…. How nice for me hahaha

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Nimai

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1983 Pickup 22R full rebuild project
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Petros
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Re: Clutch Chatter/Vibration

Post by Petros »

that might be a super ceding part number, check compatibility before you send it back. if it fits you can use it.
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Re: Clutch Chatter/Vibration

Post by slimdude85 »

Between the wear on the fingers and the fastener marks around the bolt holes, that pressure plate looks like it’s been previously installed to me. It may be an instance of “Hey, I’ve got this old clutch laying around. Maybe I can return it as the one I bought and make a little extra at someone else’s expense.”
Do not be afraid of sudden fear nor of the onslaught of the wicked when it comes; For the LORD will be your confidence and will keep your foot from being caught.
‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭3:25-26

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Nimai_SR5Wagon
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Re: Clutch Chatter/Vibration

Post by Nimai_SR5Wagon »

Petros, unfortunately no.. the clutch disc itself has a bigger diameter than the tercels flywheel. Incompatible so i need to send it back..

Slimdude85, hmm i didnt even think that, the "wear on the fingers" does look odd but it almost looks like a heat treat to me but i cant be sure. Either way its not a useful part to me so im sending it back.
Nimai

1984 Tercel Wagon SR5
1983 Pickup 22R full rebuild project
2018 Civic Sport Hatch
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