in helena montana looking for running 3a motor

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mtmtntop
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in helena montana looking for running 3a motor

Post by mtmtntop »

i now have two 4wd tercels with a lower end knock. i need to keep at least one running. parts car or engine only. preferably within a days drive of helena. thanks
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rer233
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Re: in helena montana looking for running 3a motor

Post by rer233 »

Are you sure it's a crankshaft bearing problem and not just a loose balancer? I had an '84 FWD wagon that I SWORE had a rod knock and fixed it by replacing the balancer, timing belt gear, and crank keys with used parts. Engine's still running fine to this day. Unfortunately, I'm in Maryland...
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mtmtntop
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Re: in helena montana looking for running 3a motor

Post by mtmtntop »

never hurts to check. ill look at them in the morning. that sure would be nice if it was a balancer issue.
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Petros
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Re: in helena montana looking for running 3a motor

Post by Petros »

it is a bit of a PIA, but I have dropped the pan with the engine still in the car, and replaced the connecting rod bearings with new, standard size bearings, put it back together and got it running. it is a low cost repair, but it worked. you loosen the front engine mounts and jack up the engine as far as you can and than you get just enough access to remove the oil pain (a bit tricky since you have to unbolt the oil pickup with the pan pulled loose).

There is the risk that the crank is really beat up and new bearings will not help much. But I have found that is usually not the case. the rod bearings always wear out first, the mains usually are good enough to leave in place (besides you can not really replace the main bearings without pulling the engine out).

if the rest of the engine is serviceable, this is way easier than pulling the engine, let alone doing a full rebuild. It can also be done over a weekend if you have all the parts and tools you need to get it done. of course if the rings and valves are also shot, and you need new seals and a clutch, than I think just replacing the connecting rod bearings would be a wasted effort. At that point you might as well replace the engine with a good one, or do a complete overhaul of the existing one.

Good luck.
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mtmtntop
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Re: in helena montana looking for running 3a motor

Post by mtmtntop »

i thought about switching out the rod bearings. just one question. f you are working in a shop with a pit, can the pan drop free of the pickup tube or is there something else in the way?
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Re: in helena montana looking for running 3a motor

Post by mtmtntop »

never mind. i just went out and looked at it and see the frame member right below the pan.
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Re: in helena montana looking for running 3a motor

Post by mtmtntop »

just an update. i decided to do an little more investigation into what i have before changing out the rod bearings and hoping for the best. i took all the belts and the timing gear cover off both engines and started them checking to see if either the balancers or the timing gear had play, both running and not. that does not seem to be the problem.

i did a compression check on both motors. one has really low compression overall, with the lowest cylinder at 85, highest at 130 and a lower end knock.
the other engine however has compression between 150 and 165. that engine also has a knock and uses alot of oil, and its actually got alot in the air filter housing. it does show smoke upon startup, but i don't see it after it warms up. i am going to do a leakdown test to see if by some weird chance its valve guide seals causing the high oil consumption and hoping to find my cylinders are in pretty good shape. if that is the case, i can do the seals from the top and the bearings from the bottom. since the motor has 250,000 on it, i am happy with the compression. maybe i can breath new life into this motor. thanks for the replies. it made me think about this some more.
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Re: in helena montana looking for running 3a motor

Post by dlb »

blue smoke on startup that improves in a few minutes is a definite sign of bad valve seals. As the engine sits, the oil leaks down past the seals and pools in the combustion chamber which causes blue smoke until that burns off. It will still burn oil while driving but since it's just trickling in then you won't see the same cloud as on startup. Plus your good compression indicates the rings and cylinders are fine, which also points to the valve seals being the cause of the oil consumption. Good luck with reviving that bad boy.
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Re: in helena montana looking for running 3a motor

Post by Petros »

there is one possible problem, oil in the air filter is usually an indication of high crank case pressure due to blow by from the combustion chambers. There is no easy fix for that other than to replace the rings.

good compression can be deceiving if there is so much blow by in the crank case it blows oil into the air filter. I had a Tercel like that, I ran the PCV line into an oil catch can, and would just pour the oil back into the engine every day or so. After several months of this, it ran okay, but the engine eventually seized up. I never took it apart to find out why but I assume it had to do with worn out oil rings or piston bores. I replace the engine with a built up 4ac and now have a much more reliable engine.

changing out the engine is a lot of effort, if you have a rebuildable engine out of the car, why not go ahead and rering it. remove the head and replace the rings, along with the bearings, front and rear main seals, and the valve stem seals. yes, it is more work, but not as much as having to pull the engine again. You could even go one step further and have the engine over-bored to clean up the cylinders, and install oversized piston and rings, replace the exhaust valves with new ones (they are not costly, the old ones get heat fatigued and can break off), and perhaps have the valve seats reground. I wrote up a procedure in the repair guides section on replacing the head gasket, and you can also improve the cooling in the head with a few mods I outline in the thread. that should make the engine good for at least another 100k miles.
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mtmtntop
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Re: in helena montana looking for running 3a motor

Post by mtmtntop »

has anyone tired this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP9MyrjK8ko
he has turned off comments and i don 't see a way to find out if this worked over the long run. Im not even sure why it works but it seems to address high pressure in the crankcase putting oil into air filter.
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Re: in helena montana looking for running 3a motor

Post by NWMO »

He is basically using a "catch can" for the oil that comes from the top of the valve cover. A properly functioning pcv system (as designed) should be sufficient and NOT have that much oil pushed out. I expect some shortcomings in his rebuild if he has that much blow by on a refreshed/rebuilt engine. While not cheap and somewhat time consuming, a rebuild or replacement engine is the way to go. If the car is currently driveable, I would live with it while I rebuilt the other engine. Machine shop costs vary significantly, but can get pricey. If you aren't comfortable rebuilding the engine, it is time to learn OR keep looking for a "runner" that you can confirm is reasonably healthy and can be swapped. If you can't start/run it, assume it needs rebuilt.
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Re: in helena montana looking for running 3a motor

Post by dlb »

Catch cans are pretty common. They're one way to deal with oil blow-by. Restore (this stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hr8jIwVyIFE) is another stop gap method for dealing with it.
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Re: in helena montana looking for running 3a motor

Post by mtmtntop »

thanks for all the input. i am planning a leakdown test just to get a little more info. I have rebuilt motors before. I just don't want to have to rebore the cylinders. I guess i probably have to tear it apart and mic them to know for sure. right now, i am assuming at least the oil ring is no good on one if not all the cylinders. I am hoping the cylinders themselves are ok given the compression is ok.
what is puzzling me is how the compression can be ok yet i have enough pressure in the crankcase to throw the oil into the air cleaner. maybe there is so much oil in the cylinders that it shows a good compression test. there was alot of oil on all 4 spark plugs.

Looking this motor over closer, i see that oil has been dripping from the air filter tube that goes from the air filter to the front of the engine compartment for some time. yet another in the long line of winter projects...
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dlb
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Re: in helena montana looking for running 3a motor

Post by dlb »

Just thought of another option you could try to reduce oil consumption. If you add Seafoam to the oil and run it for a tank of gas and then change the oil, that might help if the problem is due to buildup on the oil scraper rings. I can't imagine it making that much difference but it's cheap and easy to try, and a lot of people swear by Seafoam.
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Re: in helena montana looking for running 3a motor

Post by larry mcgrath »

I have a good 3a motor that is in good shape I live in Butte For Sale
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