New here, looking to start a wagon project!

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Gumbythegreat
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New here, looking to start a wagon project!

Post by Gumbythegreat »

I’m new here. I Recently got the itch to get more into automotive projects after getting into woodworking, diy, small engine work, and other tool related projects. I have always had a soft spot for vintage Japanese stuff after living there for a few years. I originally started looking for a kei truck project but while searching I came across a Tercel 4wd wagon near me and my interest was peaked. I’m just afraid of all that I don’t know and if it’s even worth grabbing this one or waiting for a better condition one to pop up.

It’s a 1984 sr5 Tercel wagon 4wd with manual transmission. The guy said it’s a rebuilt OEM engine and Weber carb. That always gives me pause. But the biggest issue is he says the transmission was stuck in low gear and it’s been removed from the car but included. After reading up on the wagons I read those horror stories of some of the tranny problems and how the 4wd can get seriously messed up if people didn’t switch over to 2wd for highway speeds. I have a group of buddies that are automotive inclined and I wouldn’t hate learning through trial by fire with an engine swap or whatever later on. But I’d like to make sure I’m not looking at something that’s just a wrecked drivetrain and it’ll be a dumpster fire the whole time.

Any advice on if that problem of stuck on low gear is normal or if it means it’s toast. I was reading stuck in 5th is when the tranny has given up the ghost. If the tranny is toast are there other Toyota’s In that generation where I could easily get a replacement from or are they pretty specific to the wagons?

And final question. If I wanted a dope lifted Tercel wagon what would be your ideal engine swap candidate?

Thanks for the advice everyone I’d love to get me a super unique battle wagon project going
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NWMO
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Re: New here, looking to start a wagon project!

Post by NWMO »

Hey Gumby,

These are great little cars, but very unique. Thus, there aren’t many “easy” engine swaps. The cars were produced with the 3a engine, the easiest swap is dropping in a 4a (only slightly larger, 1.6L vs 1.5l) and reportedly some design improvements in the head. A few ambitious folks have swapped in the EFI 4age, but that requires significant custom work. Good luck and keep us posted.

Chris

PS - “stuck in gear” may mean worn shift forks. These transmissions aren’t the easiest to find parts for, often easier to find a parts car trans and swap it in.
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dlb
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My tercel:: '87 sr5, '83 dlx parts car
Location: bc, canada

Re: New here, looking to start a wagon project!

Post by dlb »

I don't remember anyone ever mentioning a trans being stuck in EL (extra low) but if that's the case, yes it's going to be a bit of a project to get that sorted out. Forum member Rob Walker (aka Xirdneh) has done a number of videos on these transmissions that should be able to help walk you through that issue if you decide to go for it.

You mentioned not being able to drive in 4wd at highway speeds but that is not the case. You can drive in 4wd at highway speeds, the important thing is that you do not use 4wd on surfaces that are not slippery -- eg, don't use it on dry pavement. These cars are true 4wd, not like all wheel drive which have a center diff that allows the front and back wheels to turn at different rates, so if you use 4wd on non-slippery surfaces it is a lot of strain on the drivetrain. It won't necessarily kill it in short order but if done frequently or for long periods it may damage something. But you can certainly drive in 4wd on a snowy highway at 90 km/h, no problem.
Gumbythegreat
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Re: New here, looking to start a wagon project!

Post by Gumbythegreat »

I really appreciate the advice here. And good to know about the true 4wd. I’m going to dig a bit deeper into this one and see what I can find out about the transmission. For a first timer I am wondering if it might be better to find one in better running shape to give myself the best chance of success.
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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: New here, looking to start a wagon project!

Post by Petros »

Hi gumby,

if the car is cheap, and mostly rust free decent body, it is well worth getting. These are great little 4x4 wagons that are easy to drive, and easy to repair, parts are usually cheap and available.

the trans may or may not be the problem. sometimes it gets "stuck" in gear when it has one low tire, or different size tires mounted. other times it is just worn linkage that is easy to correct. And a bad clutch cable, or cable adjuster, can make it hard or impossible to shift gears. All of those problems can be or it could fixed without removing the transmission. If there are internal broken parts, or if the gear box is completely trashed and you should just find a good used replacement gear box. the best one replacement trans is one for the T4wd from '83-84. you can also make the gear box for the '85-88 T4wd work with some parts swapping from the old one. at worst, you can often get good used parts from the front wheel drive trans of the '83-86 sedans, since many of the internal detail parts are the same. Usable transmissions are still available, and some the trans parts like bearings and seals, can also be purchased. syncros and "hard parts" are not easy to find new on a car this old, they have not made any new parts for this car for 34 years. so we get to salvage usable parts from the wrecking yards and from parts cars in peoples back yard.

if the car is fairly clean and everything works as a good daily driver, but not "restored", it can sell for $3500-4000 or more. that would depend on your location (where are you anyway?). So it is well worth fixing.

as far as engine swaps, best up grade is the 4ac (corolla engine), with a few tweaks, will get you 50 percent more power. With some parts fabrication and special parts and fitting, the 4age will more than double the HP output, and all of the "hard" points bolt up on the tercel drive train, and engine mounts. the fuel injected 4afe, and the larger 7afe have also been made to work. These engines are fairly common (more than the 3ac I think) and a good core engine is relatively inexpensive, with lots of performance parts available for them. there might be other engines that can be made to fit, but those will take a lot of effort and special custom parts to make it work.

Good luck.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
Gumbythegreat
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Re: New here, looking to start a wagon project!

Post by Gumbythegreat »

Petros thank you so much for all of that information. I’m in the south East and the guy is currently wanting $900 for its undriveable state with transmission out. Honestly as my first project car I’d like the total to stay below $5k as much as I can help it and am a little worried about hunting a new transmission down if I need to. I don’t want to inherit someone else’s hunk of metal. But that are just so dang cool when done up right.
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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: New here, looking to start a wagon project!

Post by Petros »

$900 is way too much for a car you can not test drive, and all taken apart (they call that buying a car "in a basket"). I have bought and fixed up many Tercels, and other cars as well. when you can not drive them, no matter the claims of the often ignorant seller, there will be other issues you only find after to get it back on the road. For example, I bought a Tercel4wd, that supposedly had "new" brakes and a "new" transmission, need the brakes to be bled, and the carb to be rebuilt, and a wrecked rear diff ring and pinion to be replaced. he delivered the car, and I think I only paid $150 for it, so the additional risk was worth it. the carb was fine, it had nine vacuum leaks in the various vac lines and the brake booster, I replaced the rear diff (I had the correct year as a spare), but it turns out the reason he trashed the rear diff was when he put in the "new" (very used) trans, they also replaced it with the wrong front ring and pinion gear. so after I got it on the road I found I got to do the job over again and put in a matching rear diff ratio. he had left the window rolled down in PNW weather for 2 or 3 years, all the old dog food spilled under the seats were molding and turned the carpet and seats into an experiment in monster mold growing, one rear axle bearing and seal was shot, and one front one was so far gone it also trashed the front steering knuckle assembly (fortunately I found a spare to replace it with good bearing and seal). I ended up replacing all of the brakes and the master cyclinder (they had just put in new pads, the rest was a leaky mess). It also needed new struts and shocks in the back, they were completely wasted. I got lucky with the local Picknpull, they got a T4wd in with a near perfect interior in the same color, and they had a 50 percent off weekend, so I bought the whole interior, the rear diff, and a replacement steering knuckle assembly. the tires were all mismatched size, were quite old and cracked, so I found a set of MR2 alloy "triangle" wheels with good tires, also at the picknpull. this car was way too much work for what it was represented, but I did okay with it since the body was basically sound, and once I got the fuel system sorted out ran pretty good.

this is the typical kind of thing you find when you buy a car that is not running, and you can not test drive it before you own it, and sink a lot of time and money into it. it was worth it in the end, but it was far more effort than I planned, and much more work that the guy selling it represented it. kind of dumb ass, replaced the transaxle with the wrong ring and pinon, and that caused him to trash the rear diff, and made a mess of the car by letting it sit with the windows rolled down for 3 years in the PNW. I was able to save it.

So, you do not even know if that trans is any good in the car you are buying, that price is way too high for a non runner. the only exception would be if the body and paint, as well as the interior was all in near perfect condition, no rust, no bad paint, no dents and road rash. I hate doing body work, so a good body is worth it. Even than, it might be worth $500-600. you can buy running TErcel4wd for $900 if you are willing to wait and go long distance to find them.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
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