CV Axel Blowout

General discussion about our beloved Tercel 4WD cars
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Kozuto_98
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Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:45 pm
My tercel:: 1987 SR5 Wagon
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

Re: CV Axel Blowout

Post by Kozuto_98 »

I got a front diff that I might be able to use from Jimcrazy.
Mostly just need to pray my original pinion is usable. If not I'm going to put the 83 transmission in and no use 4WD until I can get a 3.73 rear end. I was considering going to the higher ratio for the 4A-GE swap so I guess this bit could happen sooner than expected.
1987 Tercel Wagon SR5 4WD
1998 Honda Accord Coupe V6 J35 swap
1997 Acura CL (Sold for 4A-GE money)
RIP 2016 Civic (wrist pin recall)
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Kozuto_98
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Posts: 229
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:45 pm
My tercel:: 1987 SR5 Wagon
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

Re: CV Axel Blowout

Post by Kozuto_98 »

Alright time for the full carnage report.
The gear on the input shaft: rounded off, no teeth left.
Idler gear: a couple teeth left, that's about it.
Front diff ring gear: missing a couple teeth.
Front diff spider gears: a complete mess.
Front diff pinion gear: missing 1 tooth.
Shifter case: brimming with rusty water.

I did take some time to count teeth just to make sure my transmission was 4.11 or 3.73. All 3 ring gears came out to be 41 teeth, and the new transmission has 11 teeth on the pinion, and my old transmission has 10 teeth, so it was the correct ratio. I'll be popping in the new transmission tomorrow and I'll run only FWD until I can get a 3.73 rear diff.

Thank you everyone for helping me with some info, as always much appreciated.
Only thing I need to do now is figure out how to identify rear end ratios. I'm unsure if those use the same teeth count as the front diff, or more or less to get the same ratio.
1987 Tercel Wagon SR5 4WD
1998 Honda Accord Coupe V6 J35 swap
1997 Acura CL (Sold for 4A-GE money)
RIP 2016 Civic (wrist pin recall)
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ALiveSR5
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My tercel:: Was a stock 1985, SR5, 4WD, 6-speed manual, Wagon.
Location: Pennsylvania USA

Re: CV Axel Blowout

Post by ALiveSR5 »

Kozuto_98 wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:20 pm Only thing I need to do now is figure out how to identify rear end ratios.
From what I learned from other forum members, the 1983 and 1984 4WD wagons had the 3.73 ratio - 1985 and later had the 4.11 ratio (of course, unless someone else swapped them along the way). I really don't know anything more than that, however, a forum member posted these video in the FB group and they may be informative to you:

One video shows determining the 3.73 Ratio the other video show determining the 4.11 Ratio:

https://www.facebook.com/10000203336111 ... 6414767436
No other vehicle that I have ever owned had a heart and soul like my 1985 Tercel SR5 4WD Wagon. :D
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Great minds may think alike but it is the doers who see their visions become reality. :?
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Kozuto_98
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Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:45 pm
My tercel:: 1987 SR5 Wagon
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

Re: CV Axel Blowout

Post by Kozuto_98 »

Transmission is back in the car. It WAS working really good but a new problem came up today.
While I was test driving I downshifted from 5th to 4th, and when I tried going back for 5th the transmission refused to go into gear, and any other gear for that matter. I could not get any gears using the clutch so I had to drive back to my shop like I was driving a semi. I'm not entirely sure what happened. Right now my guess is something with the clutch/throwout bearing.
1987 Tercel Wagon SR5 4WD
1998 Honda Accord Coupe V6 J35 swap
1997 Acura CL (Sold for 4A-GE money)
RIP 2016 Civic (wrist pin recall)
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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: CV Axel Blowout

Post by Petros »

I am not sure I understand the problem, but there is an aftermarket clutch company that makes the friction disk too thick, and it makes it difficult to shift. if you did not change or alter the clutch at the same time, that would not be the problem, otherwise it is suspect until proven otherwise. the only fix is to pull the trans and replace the friction disk with a thinner one, but do not do that until you know that is the problem.

other cause might be a stretched or out of adjustment clutch cable (there is an auto cable adjuster ta the top of the clutch pedal, inspect it make sure it is operating properly, old plastic parts can disintegrate). a bad or stretched clutch cable is easy enough to replace. I put a shim (made from a heavy zip tie) where the cable run through the edge of bell housing as a cable stop.

also, sounds like perhaps the shift linkage popped out. I have seen this before, perhaps from wear making it sloppy. it seems the shift fork will stay engaged and the shift lever just flops around loose. I had that happened on two different cars, one the trans was pretty well trashed, but I was able to dive it home stuck in 2nd gear. Another time, also stuck in 2nd, I change out the trans to dive it home, but when the trans that was stuck in 2nd was pulled apart, nothing could be found wrong with it. all the shift forks, linkage and everything looked in good shape, the end of the shift lever just popped out of place some how.

good luck.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
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Kozuto_98
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Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:45 pm
My tercel:: 1987 SR5 Wagon
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

Re: CV Axel Blowout

Post by Kozuto_98 »

My clutch is a stock Aisin unit. Not sure if it's the original one from when the car was made but it sure looks that way, although it's always held up good.

I'll try my clutch cable first, it does feel a little bit different, as in slop. If I recall there is adjustments that can be made from the pedal side so I'll give that a try, and if else I'll give a shim a shot.

You could be right with the shifter popping out from the case. The new transmission had 3 of the 6 bolts that hold the top cover in place broken off. The plastic cup that sits on my shifter was also not in the greatest shape so that may have contributed to a pop out situation. However, my shifter inside the car didn't feel anymore sloppy than before the problem.

I should point out that after I lost the ability to shift using the clutch I could hear a mildly audible grinding/scrapping sound.
Thanks for the advice!
1987 Tercel Wagon SR5 4WD
1998 Honda Accord Coupe V6 J35 swap
1997 Acura CL (Sold for 4A-GE money)
RIP 2016 Civic (wrist pin recall)
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dlb
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My tercel:: '87 sr5, '83 dlx parts car
Location: bc, canada

Re: CV Axel Blowout

Post by dlb »

Kozuto_98 wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 6:53 pm I should point out that after I lost the ability to shift using the clutch I could hear a mildly audible grinding/scrapping sound.
When was the grinding/scraping sound occurring? Any time the engine is running, when engine running and clutch pedal depressed, when vehicle is rolling, etc. That will help determine what may be causing the sound.
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Kozuto_98
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My tercel:: 1987 SR5 Wagon
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

Re: CV Axel Blowout

Post by Kozuto_98 »

I heard the sound when I got to about 3k on the tach in each gear, and it would continue past 3k, at any speed while driving.
1987 Tercel Wagon SR5 4WD
1998 Honda Accord Coupe V6 J35 swap
1997 Acura CL (Sold for 4A-GE money)
RIP 2016 Civic (wrist pin recall)
xirdneh
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My tercel:: 87 tercel 4x4 wagon w/reringed engine, 83 tercel 4x4 wagon w/salvaged engine and 4.1 Diff's
Location: seabeck, washington, USA

Re: CV Axel Blowout

Post by xirdneh »

Mismatched tire diameter can cause the hard to get out of 4wd thing.
When mine gets stuck I put in reverse and back up and push 4wd lever forward
Love those Tercell 4x4 wagons but they sure suffer from road noise.
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Kozuto_98
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Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:45 pm
My tercel:: 1987 SR5 Wagon
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

Re: CV Axel Blowout

Post by Kozuto_98 »

xirdneh wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 1:19 am Mismatched tire diameter can cause the hard to get out of 4wd thing.
When mine gets stuck I put in reverse and back up and push 4wd lever forward
Yeah, I've heard stories about that from my step-father and his 88 Tercel. I guess uneven tire pressures can also cause that.
I've run either 175/70/13 for winter or 185/65/14 for summer, but maybe some difference in tire pressures was the culprit for that issue.
1987 Tercel Wagon SR5 4WD
1998 Honda Accord Coupe V6 J35 swap
1997 Acura CL (Sold for 4A-GE money)
RIP 2016 Civic (wrist pin recall)
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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: CV Axel Blowout

Post by Petros »

the clutch cable should self adjust, the auto adjusting device is at the top of the foot pedal lever. Either the calbe is stretched out (and should be replaced) or the self adjuster is not working.

On a car this old the plastic parts sometimes turn to dust, teeth break off and it does not work. if it is working properly. it takes slack out with a spring load plastic ratchet device, the clutch cable should have the correct tension on the cable. that would mean you have to replace the plastic parts with ones you get from a junk yard.

so either the self adjuster is malfunctioning (inspect it by removing the lower trim panel below the dash and steering column). how it works is kind of obvious, it is just hard to see, it should take up the slack cable, unless it is fully maxed out. so either it takes up the slack (fix/replace the adjuster), or it is maxed out and can not adjust the cable any more (replace the cable). Sometimes the spring just popped off and it can not ratchet properly, replace the spring.

What happened to me, adjuster was working but I could not release the clutch with the pedal all the way to the floor. it has to be the cable is old and stretched, so it is too long. either you replace the cable, or your add a shim to the clutch cable housings so it takes up more of the slack at the cable stop where the bell housing meets the back of the engine black (right above the starter)
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
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Kozuto_98
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Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:45 pm
My tercel:: 1987 SR5 Wagon
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

Re: CV Axel Blowout

Post by Kozuto_98 »

I did a little fiddling around today with the clutch and transmission.
Petros was right on one thing, my cable adjuster was pretty much junk, but the spring on the pedal was also a little worn out. After a little bit of adjusting and a random replacement pedal spring the cable was sorted out and made a decent difference.
I also found the culprit for some of the transmission noise. My speedo cable had slipped out a little and decided it wanted to puke my oil on the road, at least that's what I'm guessing happened. I swapped the piece from the transmission side of the speedo cable to my old one and that problem was fixed after another oil fill.

I still get a little bit of grinding sound once I hit about 50mk/h (35mp/h), and it sounds a lot like a metal piece being turned down on a lathe so I'm thinking it's something to do with the 2 piece drive shaft.
1987 Tercel Wagon SR5 4WD
1998 Honda Accord Coupe V6 J35 swap
1997 Acura CL (Sold for 4A-GE money)
RIP 2016 Civic (wrist pin recall)
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simon84
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Location: Banff, Alberta, Canada

Re: CV Axel Blowout

Post by simon84 »

Check your carrier bearing.
I replaced mine recently once I got my new trans and new exhaust installed, It was making a big knocking noise and it was the drive shaft hitting the exhaust pipe. My old carrier bearing was sagging in the rubber donut that it sits in. It was pretty easy to do. I followed the FSM instructions.
Driver: 87 Tercel SR5, white, 4ac, weber carb (aka the Tercedes)
Road Tripper:95 Mitsubishi Delica L400 2.8L Turbo Diesel
Motorbike: 94 Kawasaki Ninja ZX6
Project Car:Red 68 Plymouth Sport Fury III
Previous Tercel:Orange 84 Tercel 4wd (aka the pumpkin)
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Kozuto_98
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Posts: 229
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:45 pm
My tercel:: 1987 SR5 Wagon
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

Re: CV Axel Blowout

Post by Kozuto_98 »

My carrier bearing isn't sagging yet, but I've had some suspicions about it going out for a while. Whenever I was in 4WD I'd always get some new vibrations from the center of the car so that could be it. One of the hangers on my exhaust did get a little bent so it's possible the drive shaft might be rubbing on some tubing.
1987 Tercel Wagon SR5 4WD
1998 Honda Accord Coupe V6 J35 swap
1997 Acura CL (Sold for 4A-GE money)
RIP 2016 Civic (wrist pin recall)
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