panhard bar bushing

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Erikwi
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My tercel:: 1988 stock auto
Location: lacrosse WI

panhard bar bushing

Post by Erikwi »

i replaced both bushings today, the top frame mount one was so hard i had a shop do it. i just used a normal rubber one there.
i tried a ball joint press, thought it was going to break the press.

so i have no tips on that. its just hard.

the lower one is three pieces. the inner part is just plastic, sandwiched by rubber outer ones like a seal.
the rubber was shot on mine, and i replaced it with a super pro.

no tools are needed to remove the axle side bushing. basically fell out.

the new one was greased and slid in on the vice.

it comes with a 20mm sleeve. throw it away. the bar on the axle is 20mm and it has to go on directly.

i think if someone wanted to do this job better they can use a hiem here, i looked and 20mm bore ones are kinda expensive though.
The Professor
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My tercel:: 1987 Tercel SR5 4WD wagon
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Re: panhard bar bushing

Post by The Professor »

Mirrors my experience. I did the lower bushing myself and had a local mom 'n' pop garage press in the upper bushing.
1975 Subaru SuperStar wagon
1984 Subaru Turbo-Traction wagon & hardtop
1987 Subaru RX 3-door
1987 Subaru RX Type-RA 3-door
1987 Toyota Tercel SR5 wagon
1999 Subaru Forester S
2002 Subaru WRX sedan
2019 Subaru Outback 2.5i Limited
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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
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Re: panhard bar bushing

Post by Petros »

I would advise against install in a heim or spherical bearing, in a car you intend to drive on the road as a daily driver. it will transmit a lot of noise, you will likely not even feel the difference, and dust and typical road grit would turn that bearing into a sloppy mess in less than a year. there is a reason street cars use bonded rubber bushings. New ones should still be available, even if troublesome to replace. and there seems to be several poly bushings available aftermarket as well.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
The Professor
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Re: panhard bar bushing

Post by The Professor »

You can use sealed heim joints on a street car. Both the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution and the Subaru STI have used sealed bearings in major suspension componenets, to great effect.

I agree that a heim in the Panhard rod is probably a waste of time and effort. Even after new struts and several new bushings, my wagon still rides like a rowboat on rough water.
1975 Subaru SuperStar wagon
1984 Subaru Turbo-Traction wagon & hardtop
1987 Subaru RX 3-door
1987 Subaru RX Type-RA 3-door
1987 Toyota Tercel SR5 wagon
1999 Subaru Forester S
2002 Subaru WRX sedan
2019 Subaru Outback 2.5i Limited
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Petros
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Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:31 pm
My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: panhard bar bushing

Post by Petros »

The Professor wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:47 am You can use sealed heim joints on a street car. Both the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution and the Subaru STI have used sealed bearings in major suspension componenets, to great effect.
That would be true, sealed ones should last longer of course, and even more costly, but I suspect quality rubber bushings will hold up best, especially for off/rough road. you will still have a lot of road noise coming though the suspension into the car, these cars are noise enough as it is. Not likely you will get any noticeable improvment for your efforts, it is a very small part of the system, all of which is flexible and often mushy.
The Professor wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:47 am I agree that a heim in the Panhard rod is probably a waste of time and effort. Even after new struts and several new bushings, my wagon still rides like a rowboat on rough water.
funny, I always felt the stock suspension felt like steering a boat. the whole body, suspension, wheels and tires have to have a full make over to improve that unwanted feel. I am surprised at how flexible the strut towers and subframe in the front is, especially as the car ages, all the welds start getting fatigued and adding noticeably to the flex. it is not just the rubber in the suspension. the skinny stock tires, flexible steel wheels, and everything contributes to that famous Toyota understeer, wallowy "big car feel" ride.

When the japans cars were first getting imported in large numbers in the late 1960 and early 1970s, the hondas, Nissans (Datsun), and mazdas all felt and handled like sports cars, fun to drive. all of the toyotas felt soft and wallowing, reminded me of the way heavy American made cars handled (and why I hated the way the toyota drove). I always wondered if that is why toyota was always more popular to the American consumer than the other, more performance handling imports.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
The Professor
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 623
Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 6:38 pm
My tercel:: 1987 Tercel SR5 4WD wagon
Location: Western Washington
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Re: panhard bar bushing

Post by The Professor »

There is a freeway onramp near my house that enters the freeway in a particularly well-worn section of pavement. I'm often carpooling to go skiing, so we make a quick jog from the RH lane three lanes over into the carpool lane. If you merge over quickly enough the entire Tercel will start rocking side to side along the diagonal and you rise and fall into the ruts worn into the road. It's an unnerving feeling, and something I don't notice with any of the other cars in our fleet.

I'd say your hypothesis on the older Toyota's softer ride is probably at least part of the story of Toyota's rise in the U.S. Especially with the Land Cruiser and pickups, they were already a lot closer to what American's were already buying versus other imports at the time.
1975 Subaru SuperStar wagon
1984 Subaru Turbo-Traction wagon & hardtop
1987 Subaru RX 3-door
1987 Subaru RX Type-RA 3-door
1987 Toyota Tercel SR5 wagon
1999 Subaru Forester S
2002 Subaru WRX sedan
2019 Subaru Outback 2.5i Limited
User avatar
Petros
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Posts: 11587
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:31 pm
My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: panhard bar bushing

Post by Petros »

many years ago my retired parents told me they bought a new car, they were very happy to have a Camry. Not a bad car, but at the time I liked the Accord better, mostly because I liked the handling of the Accord. the Camry very much felt like a big heavy American car. I asked my dad if he consider the Accord, his exact words were "we test drove it, but the Camry had a better ride". LOL! exactly why I did not like the Camry. I did not say a thing, my dad was an Oldsmobile enthusiast. Growing up I remember the family having a number of big Oldsmobiles. I knew there was no point in pressing him about it. both are well made and very popular, so, he gets is big soft car ride.

And I think that is why Toyota got a better foothold early in the American market more than the other imports.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
Erikwi
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Posts: 114
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2020 3:31 pm
My tercel:: 1988 stock auto
Location: lacrosse WI

Re: panhard bar bushing

Post by Erikwi »

actually after driving it a bit i can feel a difference. it feels more natural now, lack of a better way to say. i mean i notice what the rear is doing less now, pay less attention to it. so i guess its more confidence inspiring.

doing the rear sway bar bushings helped. (they gave a little more road noise but no harshness) it has a bit better turn in now and less roll.
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