ideas for next 3 months

[Aussie_3ASCV]

well ive just lost my license for 3 months so tercel is going to have some makeovers. already got a set of 15's that arent bald and am looking at custom welding and making a few suspension mods to get some lift. anyway im definetly changing the engine. poor old 3a is getting a bit tired of me harassing it off road so im looking at a 4age for $750. while i was playing about with my bushbashing sigma i couldnt help but wonder whether a 2 litre or 2.6 litre astron motor from a sigma would fit? the 2 litre with those 4-2-1 stock extractors and a set of twin solexs FLIES!!!! any ideas guys on whether it would fit?

[GTSSportCoupe]

I'm not familiar with the Astron motor; but basically anything that is not a Toyota 'a' series engine will be a huge amount of work. Anything with much more power than a 4age will likely ruin the transmission anyhow. I think you will find installing the 4age to be fairly challenging in of it's self. Try to get a 4age from a rwd AE86 Trueno/Levin if you can. I think you'll have to buy an imported one in Australia. You'll find the rwd setup much easier to install.

Keep us posted!

well ive just lost my license for 3 months so tercel is going to have some makeovers. already got a set of 15's that arent bald and am looking at custom welding and making a few suspension mods to get some lift. anyway im definetly changing the engine. poor old 3a is getting a bit tired of me harassing it off road so im looking at a 4age for $750. while i was playing about with my bushbashing sigma i couldnt help but wonder whether a 2 litre or 2.6 litre astron motor from a sigma would fit? the 2 litre with those 4-2-1 stock extractors and a set of twin solexs FLIES!!!! any ideas guys on whether it would fit?

[Typrus]

If I'm not prying... Why'd you lose it?

Anything other than a 4AGE will be a lot of work... Well, maybe a 4AFE would be nice, but still.

The best aftermarket choice outside of Toyota in my opinion is a Subaru Boxer-style 4-cyl with Subie AWD drivetrain. Thats the closest thing you'll find to our Tercels with any amount of power. Our main dilemma, even in adding a 4AC with just 10 or so more horses is the tranny. Our trannies are the worst ones I've ever seen in a Toyota. Not to say they are pieces of crap, but I must say I've seen better in a Toy. Know the problem with that? There are no other longitudinally mounted 4WD or AWD setups made by Toyota. Its all transverse. That means a buttload of pain seeing as how you'd have to make it work with an engine mounted side-side. Completely different under-hood design involved.


I just had a thought... Not very smart, but I have to say it while its fresh... Mount a transverse FWD setup and make, rather than CV half-shafts, driveshafts go from either output slot towards the back or front.... That sounds like the stupidist thing I've ever come up with, but somehow tell me how feasible that is...


To continue... I have yet to look under the hood of anything but an SVX, which has a monster 6-cyl in it, but based off of it, the Subie AWD system is longitudinal. Meaning the pistons are arranged front-back, like ours. Sure, mounting points are all different, but having it be Longi makes it that much closer. Of course I'd have to examine the drivetrain setup outside of the SVX or who-have-you to see if it'd work fairly well. I heard from a good buddy/car fanatic that an old Legacy AWD's drivetrain might work, with some track-trimming and custom shafts. If executed properly, that might make a bomber off-roader or a speedy onroader.



Of course, if you want to stay Toy and are willing to work for your Kudo's, then do a truck drivetrain transfer of some sort involving a 22R. Its a highly capable engine, and out of a T100 or even the 80's 4wd's, it is a bomber tranny. That and there is a MASSIVE aftermarket following for the various drivetrain parts off the Toy Trucks. Both engine and suspension. Owing to the Celica GT's, the 22R has a pretty good performance parts following, and due to the offroaders in their trucks, the tranny, axles and lift-associated parts have a fairly big aftermarket.



Man... I have to look at that FWD tranny thingy.... That would make an insanely odd AWD setup lol.

[Gasoline Fumes]

I just had a thought... Not very smart, but I have to say it while its fresh... Mount a transverse FWD setup and make, rather than CV half-shafts, driveshafts go from either output slot towards the back or front.... That sounds like the stupidist thing I've ever come up with, but somehow tell me how feasible that is...

Man... I have to look at that FWD tranny thingy.... That would make an insanely odd AWD setup lol.

Not your worst idea.
It would make an awesome rockcrawler, but wouldn't be useable on the street. You have to remember that a FWD transaxle has the final drive built into it already. Then you add the reduction of the diff ratios in your front and rear axles, and you'll make third or fourth gear feel like first!

[Typrus]

Lol. Duh. What about something out of a diesel? Like our Passat TDI that is churning 4400RPMs at something like 110mph? lol...
You'd need to find 2.11:1 diffs... I think those do exist though.
That still means that at 110 you'd be churning close to 8000RPMS... Perhaps a good idea for the 4AGE as a speed deterrant? lol... j/k. Fuel economy would go to hell.

[Mac]

I've given engine swaps for the tercel much thought, i dunno why, but i do when i'm bored...

if i had the money and time, i would swap a 4A-C with a webber carb and a custom 2" or 2.25" (50-55MM) header-back exhaust system, high flow cat, resonator and muffler. i would also machine the head and do a mild port and polish job

while i'm at it i would take the opportunity to wrap the exhaust headers to keep all that heat away from the intake manifold and engine bay.

reason for keeping it mild is that the transmission can't handle all kinds of power, its simple, easy to do, cheap, still have torque to go off road, and the tercel will now be abel to keep up with traffic.

as great as it would be to have a tercel that could keep up with a integra type-R or a civic SIR, its probably cheaper and easier to buy a 2nd faster car.

[Aussie_3ASCV]

well after much planning i have finnaly planned out and started the long slow process. Why take the easy way out and drop a 4A series engine in?!? instead im putting in the hard yards and tuning up the 3A-SCV from the wrecked tranny tercel.Apparently according to a printout i fot te 3a-SCV or 3A-SCU are good for 86 HP so am gonna use this as my building block Here's my list-

-Getting the head machined down to 20 thou to increase compression
-Lightening the flywheel from 8.2 Kg to 7 Kg
-Polishing crankshaft
-Replacing all gaskets and seals
-Replacing crankshaft bearing shells with aftermarket indium shells that i ordered
-Getting Block milled flat on head surface
-Copper head gasket (custom cut...expensive)
-5 thou oversize piston rings
-Double valve springs
-Cylinder Hone
-Manually reseating valves with cutting compound
-Port and polish on SCV head

next week im getting all this stuff sent off to sabre and auto engineering. Now heres my big question. Ive got a weber 32/36 DGAV of an escort or ive got a set of DCOE 40's but havent got manifolds for it. Im aiming for the 110 BHP mark. I was going to get a set of extractors but the tercel head has square exhaust ports (WTF?) . I wish it was a crossflow. Any suggestions guys? i will be posting pics regularly

[Typrus]

Heh........ You could get a cross-flow head, but that'd be less efficient than just grabbing a 4-series engine, like the 4AFE.

Make sure the headers are stainless, otherwise wraps will disintegrate them very quickly.

Machining head down to 20 thou? What the who is that?
If you mean you are taking material off of the block deck or the head deck, then be careful, as you can run into timing belt issues. You could try to find higher compression pistons. I dunno if you can overbore a 3 block to the same diameter as a 4 block, but if you could, then it would be easy to find high-compression 4A-C pistons that'd work, as far as I know. Dunno what all is different in an SCV. That'd add more power by giving you an extra 100cc's AND higher compression.

Find out how much it'd be to have the crank razor-edged, or whatever they call the process used to decrease "windage". Windage is the effect of the interaction of the crankshaft and oil in the pan. Believe it or not, in that sense oil causes a parasitic loss by repeatedly smacking the cranks counter-weights. I believe what they do in razor-edging is cut off a large amount of material from the counter-weights, creating a knife-edge shape versus the blunt shape. Decreases oil to crank interaction. Dunno the effects of removing counter-balance though.

A process I've read a little bit about is to dimple the piston crown, very very lightly. It is supposed to create better fuel-air mix. Also, look up Singh's Lines.Or was it Singh's Grooves? takza, a little help...

If you are putting forth this much effort, why not have the tranny gears... What was the process called? Shot-Peened and ...... some sort of hardening process. That MIGHT knock the power handling up to 150 or so, putting your 110 goal not right on the edge of disaster.



You know, it may seem absolutely obsurd, and like way to much effort, but look at Subaru AWD drivetrain's, if you have any available. They too are longitudinal, BUT, because they are horizontally opposed (Boxer) style engines, they are very short while the tranny consumes most of the under-hood room. Advantage would be that there is a strong Subie aftermarket, especially for the Impreza's and WRX's. Disadvantage would be this one word.... CUSTOM. Essentially EVERYTHING drivetrain would need to be custom.
I suppose thats an issue of, How far are you willing to go?




Another advantage of going to a 4AFE or 4AGE head would be the EFI. Better efficiency, more power, but much harder to tweak at home with just a set of wrenches.
Why not go crossflow?
Custom exhaust work. Exhaust needing to be routed in ways that would harm ground clearance and create a "Snag point" under the car.
Needing to re-wire and re-plumb for EFI. That can be a difficult process, especially if you are lacking an ECU and wiring harness.
Need to convert to carb. I know a cross-flow head can be made to be carbed, someone on here has a 5AFC (the 4AFE's big, carb-converted brother) but I dunno how hard it is to do. Not my area of expertise.

Why go crossflow?
Again, the EFI will be more efficient and powerful. Just not tweaker-friendly.
The cross-flow design will improve efficiency.
2x the valves. The 4AFE and 4AGE (USD) are 16-valvers. That translates to mucho flow.
It looks cool. Nuf said.




Hey, you want a really interesting one? If you have a VW TDI diesel engine (1995-1998 preferrable) available, measure its tranny mount points. I think the top are close to the Toyota "A" series mounts, but have yet to measure the bottom. Supposing that a miracle occurred, and the tranny mounts were the same, then I'd very much recommend a TDI. Why? Our 96 Passat, which outweighs the Terc by maybe 550lbs, gets about 46mpg @ 75mph highway, mixed with some city. It has 90 horses, and about 130ft/lb torque. That is a good bit above the recommended max threshold for our trannies, but I'm sure you could de-tune or something.

Advantages.
Its a diesel. How's that good? Expect 500,000+ miles out of it, with regular maintainance and good lubes, before it croaks. Expect great mileage. Expect to have your torque right off idle, waiting to climb a vertical surface. Expect a good engine value.

Disadv.
It's a VW diesel. Well, why is that bad? You don't really know what little part may go wrong and eventually dork a bunch of stuff up. Parts are $$$$$$$$$$. If you have bad fuel, or the glow plugs die, expect Hollywood to call you up for their next horror movie- Starring, the VW Smog-Machine!!!! lol. It leaves black circles in our driveway right now because the plugs are pretty much shot.


I dunno. Out of blabber right now.

[Aussie_3ASCV]

Alright so the crossflow is ruled out. Taking 20 thou means im getting the head machined down to not only be flat but to take off a bit of material thus aiding in increasing compression. All of the points you said are completely valid but its all too complicated. i want to stick with the 3A series engine the whole way through. as i said anyone can drop in a 4,5,7 series engine for power increases but i find it way more interesting to see the potential of the 3 series.Im not overboring the cylinder but honing it to take the glaze off the cylinder surface to reseat the new rings. The rings are oversize to also aid in compression. The point about the crank and parasite loads is all fair and good but in a application only trying to gain 110 bhp its not really valid. And anyways whats the fun in EFI. i love that roar of an open filter air box at heavy acceleration. Anyway i hate new stuff. i would prefer to stick to old school performance testing.no forced induction, no computers or efi. will keep you all updated

[Typrus]

The turbocharger was patented in.. I believe 1906, but was drawn up somewhere around 1890. It was used heavily in heavy aircraft in WWII, aiding in not only range, but also ceiling and top speed. For the most part, turbochargers remained a military device until sometime in the... Was it 50's? At that point, they were mostly used in expensive hot rods and rich mens vehicles. That, and heavy trucking.
Turbo's are very simple devices. They just link through the intake and exhaust. The most complicated parts would have to be routing the oil lines and getting a wastegate with the proper pre-tension to bypass flow at the right PSI setting. AKA, a proper setting to keep boost at a non-destructive level.
I'm not trying to convince you to use one, just countering the point that they are "New School" performance. If anything, they are an old dog being taught new tricks (Variable Vane Technologies, Variable Nozzle Technologies). An old dog who did something to make the young-guns happy.... lol

[GTSSportCoupe]

well after much planning i have finnaly planned out and started the long slow process. Why take the easy way out and drop a 4A series engine in?!? instead im putting in the hard yards and tuning up the 3A-SCV from the wrecked tranny tercel.Apparently according to a printout i fot te 3a-SCV or 3A-SCU are good for 86 HP so am gonna use this as my building block Here's my list-

-Getting the head machined down to 20 thou to increase compression
-Lightening the flywheel from 8.2 Kg to 7 Kg
-Polishing crankshaft
-Replacing all gaskets and seals
-Replacing crankshaft bearing shells with aftermarket indium shells that i ordered
-Getting Block milled flat on head surface
-Copper head gasket (custom cut...expensive)
-5 thou oversize piston rings
-Double valve springs
-Cylinder Hone
-Manually reseating valves with cutting compound
-Port and polish on SCV head

next week im getting all this stuff sent off to sabre and auto engineering. Now heres my big question. Ive got a weber 32/36 DGAV of an escort or ive got a set of DCOE 40's but havent got manifolds for it. Im aiming for the 110 BHP mark. I was going to get a set of extractors but the tercel head has square exhaust ports (WTF?) . I wish it was a crossflow. Any suggestions guys? i will be posting pics regularly

That all makes sense to me. Looks like you are basically starting with a more powerful version of our engine (good), rebuilding it, and doing a number of small things that will make a nice difference in performance. Keeping things simple is a good thing. You'll know what you're dealing with. I shaved a head for a 4age by 20 mils and it made a nice little difference in power; it increased my compression by .5:1 It didn't cause any noticable issues with my cam timing. You probably already know, but you could get a cam, double valve springs, and a Weber 32/36 all in one package from a place in the USA called Paradise Racing. I think the Weber would be completely sufficient for your plans. Don't bother buying a custom copper head gasket - there are many performance head gaskets available for the 4age, and they will work fine in the 3AC. The cylinders, oil ports, water jackets etc. line up. Only thing is is that the bore of the 4age is a couple mm larger, but I don't think this would cause any problems with the head gasket in a 3AC. You should also consider porting the intake manifold. You will want to port match it to the head. They are quite restrictive to high flow. Be carefull with polishing the intake ports, as keeping it a bit rough is apparently good for fuel atomization. Also, maybe you can find a cheap tube header you can use? I look forward to seeing this buildup done. Please keep us informed.

Oh yeah, and check out this thread for some more ideas: viewtopic.php?t=1530 There is a link to an engine build up very similar to what you are doing. You may be able to gain some experience from what the guy did.

[Aussie_3ASCV]

all right well i just pulled the valve springs out and now the head is bare. ebfore i get it machined down im re-seating the valves to the seal. spending about 30 minutes per valve. heres a pic of the valves and grinding compound.



its taking forever.......im considering just port matching the engine. not fully porting it out. dont forget mines an SCV head so its pretty well opened up already. now i need to do some clutch shopping. when im offroad i seem to kill clutches cause there cheap shit clutches for like $30. got any suggestions guys?

[GTSSportCoupe]

all right well i just pulled the valve springs out and now the head is bare. ebfore i get it machined down im re-seating the valves to the seal. spending about 30 minutes per valve. heres a pic of the valves and grinding compound.
its taking forever.......

I've lapped valves for a 4age by hand with a grinding compound the same as you before.. A trick to making it faster is this:

Put oil on the valve stem, and the grinding compound on the valve seat. Slid the valve into the valve guide all the way until it is in the 'closed' position. Get a drill, and put a piece of steel in the chuck about the size of your valve stems. Get a piece of vacuum line, about 1" long, and slide it up the piece of steel in the chuck. Slide the other end of the piece of vacuum line onto the end of the valve stem. You now have attached the drill to the valve. Spin the drill with one hand, and put pressure on the valve to keep it against the valve seat with the other hand. Grind away and check occasionally to see how the valve surface is doing. This is a quick and dirty way to lap valves. Saves hours and works great.

Good luck.

[Mattel]

By the way Aussie 3ASCV what fuel do you use in your Terc? as I'm not sure what year your car or engine is and if so do you use any sort of Valve Saver type supplement? I'm running my '84 on premium unleaded with a dose of Valve saver in each tank.

If you are pulling your engine apart can you use Valves and seals that are designed for unleaded as I think 1985 onwards the Australian design rules stated that the engines must have been designed to drive on unleaded. I'm sure you have taken all this into account.

Regards,
Matt

[ARCHINSTL]

GTSSportCoupe -
GREAT idea on valve lapping - wish I'd thought of this back when I did 3 Morris Minor heads in a row...I just used what I called the "Boy Scout Fire-starting Method" with the hand suction cup lapper twister thingie.
Why not make this into an Official Thread for the Repair Guides? There could be people out there who would benefit from this.
Tom M.
- I'm the one with the forehead slanted back from hitting it and saying "Oh, Yeah - that will work..."