ISO front differential with mounts for 83-84

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Shanemt
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My tercel:: 1983 sr5 4wd wagon

ISO front differential with mounts for 83-84

Post by Shanemt » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:40 pm

Looking for a front differential and mounts with the 3.73 axle gearing for my 83 sr5 4wd wagon, and possibly a passenger axle too. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

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NWMO
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Re: ISO front differential with mounts for 83-84

Post by NWMO » Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:32 am

Welcome Shane,

What part of the country are you in? Salvage yards are a possibility or CL searching for a low $$ parts car. There is currently a thread dealing with this replacement, though many choose to swap the whole front assembly (diff, axles, brakes, etc.). While reman axles are not popular here, they are available if nothing else pops up. Good luck, we love pics.

Chris
Psalm 37:4 "Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart"

In remembrance of my friend ARCHINSTL:

T4WD augury?
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit."
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"

"Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates."
Mark Twain

Shanemt
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My tercel:: 1983 sr5 4wd wagon

Re: ISO front differential with mounts for 83-84

Post by Shanemt » Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:20 am

Chris,

Thanks for your reply. I live in Missoula, Montana, and I’ve found a few parts cars just not one someone’s willing to sell me the front differential out of yet. I haven’t been able to get mine all the way out yet, but I did find the differential mount at the passenger side was broken and some pieces of the differential gears fell out when I cracked the front case. Seems like I need to remove the power steering to be able to get the front differential all the way out without having to drop the whole transmission? I just order a repair manual so that will be here soon. As it sits right now I need a front differential, the passenger side differential mount, driver side steering tie rod, and possibly the passenger side axle too. I’d like to just replace the front differential if I can find one since the engine transmission and rear differential all seem to be fine. Here are some photos, and again any advice would be much appreciated!

Thanks again,

Shane

678-333-5012
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Petros
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Re: ISO front differential with mounts for 83-84

Post by Petros » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:57 pm

wow, someone really was hard on that one.

you should go ahead and drop the whole trans. the front diff is integral with the bellhousing on the front of the trans, and the whole case will likely be full of ground up metal. it should get opened up and everything flushed out good. get a front diff assembly and housing and swap out the whole assembly off the front of the trans.

pulling the trans is not so bad, you are half way there already. remove the shift lever from the top, pull out the drive shaft and drop the rear trans mount, pull the wire connectorss and unbolt the bell housing and starter, pull it all out. there is a detailed procedure to pull the trans in the repair guides section.

BTW, make sure you replace the front diff with the same gear ratio, there were two, the earlier 3.73:1 ('83-84) and 4.1:1 ('85-88). you have to match the rear diff ratio, or you will need to swap out both the front and rear diffs so they match. BTW, do not assume your year has the factory gear ratio, in fact it is likely a previous owner put in the wrong one and that is why it got trashed. Often people swap out the whole transaxle not realizing it has a different final drive ratio. you can jack up the rear wheels, mark the drive shaft and tires, rotate the drive shaft until the tires come back to their starting point, counting the number of times you turn the driveshaft (less than 4 full turns, you have 3.73, slightly more than 4 turns, you have 4.1).

I might have an extra font diff assembly you can buy if you can not locate one locally, but I do not know the ratio, I would have to check on it. find out what your car should have first.

BTW, welcome to the forum.

good luck.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

Shanemt
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My tercel:: 1983 sr5 4wd wagon

Re: ISO front differential with mounts for 83-84

Post by Shanemt » Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:20 pm

This is my Tercel by the way it’s super clean inside and out except for the differential being blown to pieces. I paid $500 for it the $300 to rent a uhaul car transport trailer to tow it home from Oregon. It came with 2 new seats to replace the torn front seats, and is the only one I’ve ever seen with this roof rack which I believe to be factory. It sat for 5 years before I towed it away, and started right up with a little help in the carburetor. Some other parts I need are a driver tie rod, lower passanger turn signal cover, passenger air vent cover, and inside rear hatch cover.
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NWMO
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Re: ISO front differential with mounts for 83-84

Post by NWMO » Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:04 am

Nice looking rig Shane,

I would expect the roof racks were added later, possibly by a dealer, but not likely. There were a few variations of roof racks that were likely production, but they all bolted through the roof. Nice car, love the seats. My project car is an 83’ with the brown (like your blue), while my daily driver is an 85’.

Chris
Psalm 37:4 "Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart"

In remembrance of my friend ARCHINSTL:

T4WD augury?
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit."
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"

"Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates."
Mark Twain

Shanemt
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My tercel:: 1983 sr5 4wd wagon

Re: ISO front differential with mounts for 83-84

Post by Shanemt » Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:00 am

NWMO wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:04 am
Nice looking rig Shane,

I would expect the roof racks were added later, possibly by a dealer, but not likely. There were a few variations of roof racks that were likely production, but they all bolted through the roof. Nice car, love the seats. My project car is an 83’ with the brown (like your blue), while my daily driver is an 85’.

Chris
Thanks Chris. When looking for another roof rack like this one I only saw the ones I only saw the roof mounted ones. It doesn’t say Toyota anywhere on it I can see, but I got the car from a third generation family owner who said it was on there when they bought it new in bend, Oregon. It came with all the maintenance and ownership records as well. Pretty sure I found a front differential for it just waiting to here back on the price.

Shanemt
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Re: ISO front differential with mounts for 83-84

Post by Shanemt » Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:05 am

Petros wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:57 pm
wow, someone really was hard on that one.

you should go ahead and drop the whole trans. the front diff is integral with the bellhousing on the front of the trans, and the whole case will likely be full of ground up metal. it should get opened up and everything flushed out good. get a front diff assembly and housing and swap out the whole assembly off the front of the trans.

pulling the trans is not so bad, you are half way there already. remove the shift lever from the top, pull out the drive shaft and drop the rear trans mount, pull the wire connectorss and unbolt the bell housing and starter, pull it all out. there is a detailed procedure to pull the trans in the repair guides section.

BTW, make sure you replace the front diff with the same gear ratio, there were two, the earlier 3.73:1 ('83-84) and 4.1:1 ('85-88). you have to match the rear diff ratio, or you will need to swap out both the front and rear diffs so they match. BTW, do not assume your year has the factory gear ratio, in fact it is likely a previous owner put in the wrong one and that is why it got trashed. Often people swap out the whole transaxle not realizing it has a different final drive ratio. you can jack up the rear wheels, mark the drive shaft and tires, rotate the drive shaft until the tires come back to their starting point, counting the number of times you turn the driveshaft (less than 4 full turns, you have 3.73, slightly more than 4 turns, you have 4.1).

I might have an extra font diff assembly you can buy if you can not locate one locally, but I do not know the ratio, I would have to check on it. find out what your car should have first.

BTW, welcome to the forum.

good luck.
Thanks for the advice. I do a lot of my own maintenance on my 04 4Runner, but this is definitely the biggest project I’ve tried to take on for sure. I figured for a $500 car it was worth it to try to to do myself first and learn a few things before taking it to a mechanic. This forum has already been a huge help, and I really do appreciate y’all taking the time to show us less skilled mechanics how to keep these awesome rigs on the road. I think I might have found a differential somewhat locally but still waiting to hear back on the price. How much did you want for yours? I know shipping to Montana won’t be cheap, but shouldn’t be crazy expensive either. I’m going to drop the transmission over the weekend, and will attempt to verify that they are both in fact 3.73 and get back to you.

Thanks again,

Shane

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Petros
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Re: ISO front differential with mounts for 83-84

Post by Petros » Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:19 pm

you can have my front diff assembly for $50, plus shipping. last time I shipped a diff assemby it cost $41, but it might be a bit more now. I need to verify the ratio, so let me know what you have. you should be able to determine the front diff ratio by counting the teeth, though as stated, you also need to verify what is actually installed in the rear, so they will match. on a car this old you never know what a previous owner/home mechanic has swapped around on it.

the fact that the diff was trashed is a good indication it may have had a mismatched front/rear diff ratio. it is not uncommon error.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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Re: ISO front differential with mounts for 83-84

Post by marlinh » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:07 am

The outside of the ring gear is stamped also. Very small but it's there.

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Petros
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Re: ISO front differential with mounts for 83-84

Post by Petros » Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:43 pm

what do you mean by differential "mounts"? if the bearing caps are damage, you have to replace the housing (or pull it all out, disassembled and have it line bored at a machine shop). the bearing caps are bored in place so they are matched to the housing, they can not be replaced without remachining the housing.

With that much damage, you should replace the whole assembly (that includes the integral bell housing). it is far cheaper, and more reliable to, to replace the whole assembly. to replace just the diff you will have to locate a shim kit and reset the lash between the ring and pinion gears. that is a very sensitive adjustment and you can damage the new ring and pinion if not set properly. not likely the housing did not suffer some damage as well.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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Petros
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Re: ISO front differential with mounts for 83-84

Post by Petros » Thu Jul 25, 2019 6:12 pm

looking at the pictures again, it appears you are trying to remove the diff with the transmission still in the car. you have to pull the transaxle assembly, you can not replace the diff without pulling the whole transaxle assembly. with what you call "mounts" (those are bearing caps, they are integral to the housing) broken the whole assembly and housing should be replaced as a unit.

also, I would not use those axles again, the spline are damaged and weakened, if they break off parts in your replacement trans it will wreck that one as well. buy new (not reconditioned) axles from Rockauto.com, they should not cost more than about $60. each.

You might consider replacing the trans as well, that many broken metal parts floating around in the gear box will cause damage unless you got lucky. Pull the whole trans axle from the car, pull apart the front bellhousing/diff from the gear box and than flush it out a number of times to make sure you get any metal particles out of the gear box. Verify your rear diff ratio and than look for a replacement transaxle, or the front diff/bell housing assembly.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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Petros
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Re: ISO front differential with mounts for 83-84

Post by Petros » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:10 pm

I check on the spare front diff assembly I have, it appears to be a 4.1:1. it is in good shape as far as gears and lash, but it appears the front cover has been patched with JB weld, likely you can reuse your old front cover. I do not know anything about the history.

also, shipping would be about $40 via Fed Ex (about 3 days), and USPS "priority" would be about $49. shipping weight is about 41 lbs. there might be a cheaper way to ship, but these usually are about it.

let me know if you can use it, I would love to get it out of my garage to someone that can use it.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

Shanemt
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Re: ISO front differential with mounts for 83-84

Post by Shanemt » Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:29 pm

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Here’s an update on the progress with my Tercel project. Sorry it took a minute to respond I’ve been busy working and such. I was able to find a replacement Z52F, and dropped the old one out. You guys were right and the whole output shaft from the transmission into the differential was destroyed. I got the new one installed using the directions from this site, and am working on finishing all that up. I have a few questions though mainly to see if I did everything correctly. I went the route of lifting the engine with a hoist and removing the engine mounts to give me the play required to reinstall the transmission.
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Last edited by Shanemt on Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Petros
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Re: ISO front differential with mounts for 83-84

Post by Petros » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:12 am

you need to number the pictures, too many to address with clairity.

but those bolts: small ones look like oil pan bolts (should be 10mm), or used to hold on sheet metal parts or brakets. the short one with the round washer looks like the one that hold the heater tube to the bell housine where it connets to the heater core nipples on the fire wall (it goes straight back into the bell housing through the black sheet metal shield), it is easy to forget to put that one in, it is under the fuel pump. The larger one could be used for holding starter motor (requires two), and the large nut appears to be the nut that holds in the input/pinion shaft on the diff. if you replace the assembly, you do not need it. a similar nut is used on the outboard end of the CV axle, with a cotter pin. if you replaced the axles usually you get new nuts, and you will not need this one.

that bent up sheet metal bracket like thing is a gravel shield that goes over the center driveshaft bearing mount. it uses the same (14mm) bolts that holds on the carrier bearing assembly. it is not really needed, they put it there to keep gravel from getting on the rubber mount and possibly damaging the bearing.

the air filter assembly gets rubber grommets, you can buy after market generic ones from the auto parts store. I have used the large rubber washers with the sheet metal cap used on the valve cover in these locations (I use the old stiff ones on the air filter, that leak oil, after I replaced them with new soft ones).

there should be two or three wires on the trans, 83-84 has a reverse light connection, and a "4wd" indicator light that is up on the dash when the 4wd is engaged. "85 and newer has there, plus one that lights up EL on the dash when you are in extra low gear.


Most of the empty holes on the bell housing and engine block are unused, not part of our installation.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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