Engine Rebuild Questions!

[irowiki]

When you reinstall the gasket try coating both sides with Black non hardening gasket cement

[rer233]

I've changed the oil pans on two of my terc wagons (both had rusted thru.) Didn't pull either engine. I did them in my garage by attatching a chain and turnbuckle to a rafter and hooking them up to the lifting eye on the front of the engine (after jacking the car up- natch.) I then unbolted the engine mounts and lifted the engine by turning the turnbuckle.

I then removed both motor-to trans stiffeners (and maybe some other small stuff- been a few years, so I'm not too clear on that.) Next I loosened (or removed- again I can't remember) the 4 long bolts that hold the subframe to the unibody and pulled the subframe down. That gave me enough clearance to weasle the oil pan out (after removing all the pan bolts- some of which are a real bear to get to.)

Most importantly (and I'm probably gonna get flamed for this) I DID NOT use a pan gasket! Instead I used Permatex Ultra Black RTV. I figure if Toyota didn't need one I shouldn't need one either. Neither oil pan leaks.

Good luck- hope this helps.

[4wdEconoBox]

Ok, gooddd!!! Thank you so much, sounds much easier than pulling the motor and having to maneuver the engine back in! I'm not going to say anything, every other oil pan I've put on only had black rtv and they never leaked, were harder to get off later on, but never leaked... This is the only engine I've used an actual gasket on and it leaks.... So I'm debating on if I even use my spare gasket or not since I've had good results with just rtv.... Haha

[rer233]

Oh yeah- one more thing I just remembered- I unbolted the steering rack from the subframe (otherwise, the frame won't drop down.)

[4wdEconoBox]

Ok, sounds good to me, do you remember how long it took you, roughly? Like could I have it done in half a day? Haha, I've got stuff I've got to get done this weekend and this is my only means of transportation... Haha

Ohh and about how tight should I tighten the oil pan bolts?

[Petros]

the pan bolts do not get very tight at all, it is like 18 in-lb. Just about "snug" after hand tight. If you over tighten them it distorts the pan and it will leak.

Are you sure the pan is actually leaking? that is rare, usually it is only running down from somewhere else and running around the lip on the pan. a number of people have made that mistake, put in in a new gasket and than find the leak was somewhere else. Just make sure it is indeed the pan gasket.

I have removed the pan without pulling the engine, in fact I did it several times and did not lower the cross member either. There is another way, you jack up the engine as high as it will go after you loosen the front engine mounts. pull all the 10 mm pan bolts (a 1/4" drive socket with several extensions and a u-joint). it will take an open end wrench to get a few of the bolts out that are over the diff housing since you can not get the socket on them. when you get the pan broken free, it will expose the bolts on the oil pick up, you remove these also with an open end 10mm wrench, let the pick up drop into the pan and than you can wiggle it out over the cross member.

the tricky part is to get these same 4 bolts that hold the oil pick up back in when reinstalling the pan. You do it by working through the 1.5 to 2" gap without dropping them in the pan. If you drop the bolt while getting them in, you have to wiggle it all out again and get it out, and start over again. if you have form-a-gasket sealant on the oil pan lip you will have to refreash it where it gets messed up when you are putting the oil pick up back in. It is a bit of a hassle, but far easier than lowering the cross member I think.

I have used both pan gaskets, and RTV sealant. I like gaskets better, but both work fine.

[4wdEconoBox]

Yeah I'll check again and make sure, what it does is it doesn't leak as bad when the car is running, but when I turn it off is when it starts leaking really bad! From right at the gasket as far as I can tell, and I painted the block silver so I could see oil leaks better and I haven't seen any leaks down the side of the block, so I'm almost 100 percent positive that it's the pan ya know?

And I'm not sure which technique I'm gonna use they both sound like good plans lol, I may still just go ahead and drop the cross member just for extra room, because I'm clumbsy and not very coordinated haha. But you never know, I'll look at it good and see which one looks easier lol. Thanks guys!

[Petros]

you can get as far as you can without dropping the cross member. if you get stuck you can than drop it for more room. If you were to make it work without dropping the cross member, than consider it a bonus that you saved time.

BTW, if you do drop the cross member, it is easier to unbolt the spline shaft on the steering column rather than unbolt the whole rack. the rack than comes down attached to the cross member giving you more room under the engine.

[4wdEconoBox]

Ok, well I probably shouldn't admit this but before I did all of that work, I went ahead and stripped everything down to check out the front main seal and it looked like a steady stream from the seal.... So I went to take it out with a seal pick and it slid out with very little effort. Then I put it back in and it just slid right back in and I could spin it inside the housing with the pick.... Guess I shouldn't trust preinstalled seals in a brand new oil pump.... Plus the preinstalled seal was hard as a rock and looks like it didn't make much of a "seal" around the crank....

Sorry for ever doubting you guys, y'all rock! I put a new seal in with some black rtv and added a little on the outside of both front seals just for added protection, I'm going to let the silicon cure overnight and I'll let y'all know the results later on tomorrow!!! Thanks so much again!!

[Petros]

yes, I have seen those "preinstalled seals", I do not see how you can install the oil pump with that in place without damaging it. I tried it once with an engine on an engine stand and just had to remove the seal. the companies that do that should save the trouble. Not the first time aftermarket suppliers do stupid things, you would think they should know better.

At least you saved yourself the trouble of pulling the pan for no reason. An easier job, and it might actually stop the leak too!

[4wdEconoBox]

Yeah, that's why I didn't think it would be a problem... You would think that these companies would know what they were doing but apparently they don't... But I'm praying and hoping that it stops the leak, or at least most of it! If it still leaks I still have plenty of rtv left over to do the oil pan, but I think the seal was the biggest leak after looking at it