convert 3A to EFI

tercel4wdrules · Post by **tercel4wdrules** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 9:38 pm

Maybe I can scan in the picture of a 3E-E's manifold if I can get it so that you guys can compare, I think 3A-C Power might have one already.

Pegger · Post by **Pegger** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 9:52 pm

I've searched for intake manifold pics and I found next to nothing...

Appreciate you sharing what you can find... measurments would be sweet!!!

Guy

3A-C Power · Post by **3A-C Power** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:53 am

I can get it real quick from my parts catalog on my hard drive. I'm not at home right now unfortunately. If someone else wants to look through the Russian, it's on the internet site http://www.japancats.ru/toyota

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:28 pm

If you lived in Colorado.... There are 2 3E's in my local salvage yard. One is a 3E carburated and the other is a 3E-E. They look kind of... gimpy.. Not only because of the 120,000 miles marks or so and the dead engine tags inside the hood, but they look so thin compared to a 3A-C... Maybe its just me.
It was funny to see a 4A-C with 310,000 and no dead engine tag, but 3E's with roughly 120,000 and dead engine tags.
Now if the yard would let me back in.. Apparently they don't let in people under 18, yet I was let in that one time.... lol.

tercel4wdrules · Post by **tercel4wdrules** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:59 am

I'll be able to go in because I will put a fake beard (perhaps a gotee) and mustache on. Then I'll put a cap on.

I don't know, wreckers or whatever you call them are a pain in the arse. I haven't tried going into a junkyard before, but you never know. I'll try the method above, just in case when I do. Or I can tell them if they don't let me in, that the Tercels will go after them in their dreams. :blink:

Pegger · Post by **Pegger** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:23 am

Yeah 3E are not so durable, as you saw in your wrecking yard...

Besides all I'm interested in is an EFI system from another small engine. The 3E intake manifold looks similar but I've never matched them up.

Plus it doesn't have to be the 3E. However it's probabaly as close as I'll get... I think... The engine is same displacement, 8 valves... the ECU would probably work very well. I would probably have to convert to electronic ignition... Anyone tackled that before?

I need to match up the manifolds to bolt them on. Some mods required but I'm hoping it will work.

I looked at that russian Toyota catalogue and did find drawings of each manifold and I find them inconclusive... That's a great find by the way, thanks for sharing it.

Oh I gotta get to work...

Guy

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 1:58 pm

How does one go about doing an electronic ignition retrofit? I might be interested in a 100x more powerful spark hehehe... Especially if I'll be putting on a better/bigger carb like the Weber. More fuel and air is useless if you can't blow it up.
How much you guys think a system would wind up costing? $300? $500?

You'd need the module, the wiring, and any breakers/fuses needed.. Looking at Jeg's, the MSD Blaster Ignition system is $80, but I don't know if its the control module or just an amplifier. Especially when compared to the MSD 6A Series Ignition module which is priced at $150.

3A-C Power · Post by **3A-C Power** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:32 pm

3E

3A

Not too far off but as you can see you would have to make the 3E's runners fit in between those of the 3A's exhaust manifold. If you get it to work, it might not work well because airflows don't like an instantaneous change in cross-section, i.e. from round to square. I guess if the dimensions turn out to be close enough the best approach is to cut the flanges off both manifolds and weld them together. Good luck getting them aligned before and especially after welding.

Pegger · Post by **Pegger** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 5:17 pm

I see what you mean with the different shapes there...

Could the ports on the head be ground to a more "square" shape to match the 3-E intake? At least right where they meet, that way the cross-section change is not instantaneous...

The runners we see in the drawings would have to be cut off... for the exhaust manifold to fit. If there is need to re-inforce the manifold afterwards a bracket could always be welded on a bit futher up.

I looked at those drawings closely and it kinda looks like the bolt holes are in the same positions... That would be sweet...

Anyway, I'm still hopeful... Keep the feedback coming, with your help I will make it happen.

Guy

Adelard of Bath · Post by **Adelard of Bath** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 12:21 am

I STILL don't like the way the exhaust and the intake are on the same side, I don't care what anyone sez about warming up faster blah blah blah....I say "nice hot carb? that's a good plan."

ANYWAY am I hearing correctly when I hear that our cars don't have electronic ignition? Don't tell me we are running points! that would blow my mind
that and the unsafe brake circuit...heh

(volvo story alert) even my 79 volvo has electronic ignition, there is a hall effect sensor on the distributor that sends a signal to the chunk of computer on the fender that creates the pulses that go to the coil. I plan to replace the coil though, I am still on the stocker

I would enjoy a whole new ignition system, basically so I could have one that sparks multiple times for each cycle...heh hh heh maybe I could make one....all I would have to do is modify the computer to go "pulse pulse pulse" instead of "pulse" everytime it gets the signal from the distributor...and its 12volts and low frequency so I could even use CMOS logic yay! oh well it works fine.

Course the BEST is from the modern cars, with no dist, and multiple coils...that is awesome! we could get by with two coils, just pair it up with the cylinder that isn't doing anything at that time.

Pegger · Post by **Pegger** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 8:38 am

I will need to convert the ignition to an electronic system. I just don't know how to yet. If you have more ideas on how we could do it for the terc please share the specific details of your ideas. Thanks for the input.

I'm sorry your car turned out to be so bad... I'm sure a good one will turn up if you still want one. With the help from the guys here, a number of them have turned up in the past few months alone...

Thanks for the input!

Guy

Pegger · Post by **Pegger** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 1:41 pm

I've begun to formulate a plan to put this project into motion. If any of you can think of better or more ideas to add, please share them.

So far what I want to do is get my hands on a 3A head from a wrecker or whatever. (they should be plentiful). Rebuild it...

Buy a Tercel with a 3E-E and rob ALL that I need from it's EFI system and it's fuel pump. (I can buy a wrecked Tercel at insurance auctions for $100-$125, that's what they got for routinely).

Use the "new" intake manifold, mate it to the "new" 3A head. (may require a lot of work, I know) I still need detailed measurments of all that stuff.

More research on electronic ignition conversion, wiring diagrams for the EFI system I want to use ETC ETC...

And when I figure I'm ready to "DO IT", swap the heads, plug her in, de-bug and voila!

I know it's early in the process however with proper planning the project should go smoother... (I hope)

Costs: I'm assuming a used 3A head can be had for $100 or less. The cost of a donor car $100. Electronic ignition conversion, $200??? What does it cost to rebuild the head??? Also unforseen expenses and associated gaskets etc $150-$200... In short if I can do what I intend I'm thinking it's a project in the +/- $500 range... What do you guys think?

Guy

Pegger · Post by **Pegger** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:40 pm

Ok, I'm pooping on my own parade now...

I dicovered that the 3E-E's fuel rail and the injectors are bolted directly to the head... I DID NOT KNOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I assumed they were bolted to the intake manifold very near the intake port............

Now I'm flustered, any one have any ideas around this obstacle? I'm blank right now...

Guy

3A-C Power · Post by **3A-C Power** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:52 pm

Modify the original manifold to add fuel injectors? That sounds as easy as using the 3E one. Our cars have electronic ignition in the sense that there are no points, but a transistor does the job of the points. It's not electronically controlled timing.

Adelard of Bath · Post by **Adelard of Bath** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 4:36 pm

The junkyard I go to is not your typical yard, this one, you pay two bucks to get in, and all the cars are lined up like a store..and you pull your own parts, and there is this huge sign posted that shows the prices, so you know before you even go in there. I like to go cuz its not a pain in the ass, and their prices are awesomely cheaper than the "normal" yards around here and I don't have to talk to the idiot hard-ass behind the counter

anyway their web page shows "cylinder head - aluminum $38 +core"
so that's pretty damn cheap!
Intake Manifolds are 14

I found this place years ago, I was tired of the normal junk yards, and I just wanted to go in there and do my own stuff, like shopping at walmart, except with cars....and I looked in the phone book and went down the list and I found this one out in the country outside the major metropolis in my state (Minneapolis / St Paul) and it was called "U Pull R Parts" hehehehheheheheh so I used my superiour intellect to determine that with a name like "U Pull R Parts" it was just what I was looking for!

And that's the only place I ever go now.

Plus I get to walk around and check out all the cars, and sometimes get little parts that fit in my pockets for free etc etc heheh
well you can do that anywhere if they dont catch you.

I don't know how the injectors in these cars mount, but alot of times they just into holes? So maybe just use the intake that fits, and mount the injectors in the intake, as close as possible to the head?