terceldude wrote: Thu Jan 02, 2025 2:56 pm
On a final note for today, this is an Egyptian movie from 1986 starring the GEN Spec model offered from at least August 1982 to January 1983, when they introduced an SR5 WAGON version of the GEN Spec model:
and this site shows parts from the latest original collision and fast-mover quick reference parts catalog to the EUG, EUR, ARL, GEN and FRG models and more. This one is to the AL25RG-ZWFDS, the closest GEN SPEC model to the Carib model #s:
That Egyptian movie car does not have SR5 badges on rear licence plate holder so I would not call that model an SR5. Even early Australian SR5 models which had "4wd" door trims instead of SR5 emblems, had SR5 emblems on the hatch unlike this one. So why this one would be an SR5 model?
And New Zealand case I answered in my previous reply. Fourth letter of AL25RG-ZWFDS is D, which refers to DLX. However, spare part catalog has indeed SR5 emblems. So AL25RG-ZWFDS model could be both DLX and SR5 due to model description and due to emblems.
So according to your false logic, an AV-II (SR5) Carib is a DLX because the model number is E-AL25G-MWFES, not MWFSS. That is a slippery slope fallacy
Actually I can prove my point even better with the Sprinter Carib. I have added two pictures straight from Sprinter Carib spare part catalog. In that you see that letter E is indeed for AV-II.
Every AV-II Carib has letter E as fourth letter meanwhile all AV-I Caribs have letter N as fourth letter. And all RV-specials are included to AV-I trim. Therefore, we can conclude that one factory trim like AV-I can include several subtrims like RV-Special, which are included in AV-I spare part catalog.
In my ZWSDSW you can find references to trims DLX, GL & SR5. So maybe some market areas marketed those same DLX cars even as GL Tercels.
They show AV-I badge in the lid meanwhile the car is RV special due to trim text, bigger bumpers, inclinometer etc. So this example shows well the connection of AV-I & RV-Special. Maybe the New Zealand SR5 is something similar. So it is not SR5 from the factory point of view but it is marketed as SR5.
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The first car picture could be Chilean GEN spec. model indeed. But they include also German Tercel pictures from 0:42 to 0:58 with Cologne licence plates. And from 1:04 to 1:29 they show even more Gen spec. Tercel pictures. So they have included several Tercel 4wd brochures to that video.
terceldude wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2025 7:20 pm
And I already used a Swedish guy to get me the Swedish brochures. He will get back to me within a week. Got the 1985 Swedish brochure also. It matches with the 85 Australian brochure
I am glad that you have found the brochures you are looking for. Hopefully they include the information that you are looking for.
The first car picture could be Chilean GEN spec. model indeed. But they include also German Tercel pictures from 0:42 to 0:58 with Cologne licence plates. And from 1:04 to 1:29 they show even more Gen spec. Tercel pictures. So they have included several Tercel 4wd brochures to that video.
Of course it is Chilean spec but they used the German pics because not many of the Chilean models were made
That Egyptian movie car does not have SR5 badges on rear licence plate holder so I would not call that model an SR5. Even early Australian SR5 models which had "4wd" door trims instead of SR5 emblems, had SR5 emblems on the hatch unlike this one. So why this one would be an SR5 model?
And New Zealand case I answered in my previous reply. Fourth letter of AL25RG-ZWFDS is D, which refers to DLX. However, spare part catalog has indeed SR5 emblems. So AL25RG-ZWFDS model could be both DLX and SR5 due to model description and due to emblems.
So according to your false logic, an AV-II (SR5) Carib is a DLX because the model number is E-AL25G-MWFES, not MWFSS. That is a slippery slope fallacy
Actually I can prove my point even better with the Sprinter Carib. I have added two pictures straight from Sprinter Carib spare part catalog. In that you see that letter E is indeed for AV-II.
Every AV-II Carib has letter E as fourth letter meanwhile all AV-I Caribs have letter N as fourth letter. And all RV-specials are included to AV-I trim. Therefore, we can conclude that one factory trim like AV-I can include several subtrims like RV-Special, which are included in AV-I spare part catalog.
In my ZWSDSW you can find references to trims DLX, GL & SR5. So maybe some market areas marketed those same DLX cars even as GL Tercels.
They show AV-I badge in the lid meanwhile the car is RV special due to trim text, bigger bumpers, inclinometer etc. So this example shows well the connection of AV-I & RV-Special. Maybe the New Zealand SR5 is something similar. So it is not SR5 from the factory point of view but it is marketed as SR5.
E only for the Sprinter Caribbean but not for the Sedan. The Carib E was a mistake on Toyota's part and I'm surprised you think they didn't make a mistake
So according to your false logic, an AV-II (SR5) Carib is a DLX because the model number is E-AL25G-MWFES, not MWFSS. That is a slippery slope fallacy
Actually I can prove my point even better with the Sprinter Carib. I have added two pictures straight from Sprinter Carib spare part catalog. In that you see that letter E is indeed for AV-II.
Every AV-II Carib has letter E as fourth letter meanwhile all AV-I Caribs have letter N as fourth letter. And all RV-specials are included to AV-I trim. Therefore, we can conclude that one factory trim like AV-I can include several subtrims like RV-Special, which are included in AV-I spare part catalog.
In my ZWSDSW you can find references to trims DLX, GL & SR5. So maybe some market areas marketed those same DLX cars even as GL Tercels.
They show AV-I badge in the lid meanwhile the car is RV special due to trim text, bigger bumpers, inclinometer etc. So this example shows well the connection of AV-I & RV-Special. Maybe the New Zealand SR5 is something similar. So it is not SR5 from the factory point of view but it is marketed as SR5.
E only for the Sprinter Carib but not for the Sedan. The Carib E was a mistake on Toyota's part and I'm surprised you think they didn't make a mistake. D for a GEN market SR5 wagon for the same reason as the Carib example
DLX = Deluxe type
DX = DX type or Deluxe type
SR5 = SR-5 type
SR = SR type
AV-II = Carib SR-5 type
ARL = Toyota designation for Australia
CND = Toyota designation for Canada
USA = Toyota designation for America
JPN = Toyota designation for Japan
GEN = Toyota designation for General (countries) such as
Brunei, The Bahamas, the Caribbean, the Netherlands,
Egypt, Chile, New Zealand, etc. aka ZWFDS
EUG = Toyota designation for European General countries
such as the UK, Ireland, the Netherlands, West
Germany, Italy, Finland, Norway, Denmark, France,
Austria, Belgium, etc. aka ZWFDSW
EUR = Toyota designation for Europe (can mean EUG, SDZ, FRG
or even GEN models specially sold in Europe in addition
their normally being sold outside Europe). Does not
have related model code. EUR countries include
Italy, the Netherlands, Denmark, Finland, Norway,
FRG = Toyota designation for Federal Republic of Germany
aka ZWFDCG
SDZ = Toyota designation for Sweden and Switzerland (models
sold only specially to Sweden or Switzerland) aka
ZWFDCC ---> Austria added in May 1986
LDLX = Low-Deluxe type
A/T = Automatic Transmission
SR5 and SR are the same grade minus the 5 in the emblem and the fact the 5 makes the SR into a 5-SPD Manual only setup, SR itself can be 5-SPD or 4-speed.
DX type alone is a base model because it has no side protection mouldings. Any model without side protection mouldings aka body side mouldings is a base model, see the Tercel 1983 STD and SPECIAL Hatchback for Canada and America. One has no side protection moulding and SPECIAL (R), one does (D) and the other sports model has the wide ones with the SR5 emblem (Q). Q usually is a GT designation but because the Carib had a Touring Special introduced in May 1986 (August 1986 for USA & CND), model and GT means Grand Touring, therefore they wanted to make SR5 the Touring model instead of the Sports model. But Touring models are the highest of the sports models that you can get.
SR5 is not a luxury or convenience package as you believe, it's a sports package and can be a performance package depending on the Toyota model.
Furthermore, if SR5 were intended to be a DLX model for all regions as you clearly seem to believe, then how come for USA, CND, and ARL regions SR5 is designated as Q, not D? Ask yourself why it is only designated as D or E in the GEN regions and JPN regions..
A Carib AV-II (SR5) started in August 1982 (1983 model year introduction for 1st gen Caribs and Tercel 4WD Wagons) as an E-AL25G-MWFES with E being a designator for a High Luxury model such as found on the COROLLA II SE model or Tercel VE and Corsa EX models and S means Japanese emissions and Single Carburetor here. In other contexts, S means Single Carburetor, Federal Emissions. In October 1983, the AV-I RV SPECIAL model and Automatic Transmission was introduced following the door-mounted sideview mirrors in May 1983, so in October 1983 (1984 model year introduction for Carib model), that MWFES, started becoming an MWHES, with H meaning 3-speed Automatic Transmission Floor Shift, F means 6-speed Manual Transmission, 4WD, including EXTRA LOW Floor Shift. That October 1983 introduction of the Automatic Transmission for the Carib would be February 1984 for the American and Canadian region models but only on the DLX grade. In August 1984 (1985 model year introduction), the MWFES, then MWHES became an MWHEB because B means Twin Carburetors because the Twin Carburetor model of the 3A-HU engine introduced in 1982 and 1983 for the JDM Tercel family of sports hatchbacks in general, became a 3A-SU.
CD, DX, VC and STD are base models, not DLX's
DX should have never been an abbreviation for DLX, just a separate grade lower than a DLX.
GL, GX, VL, CL, AV-I and DLX are LDLX models.
SE, EX, VE, TERCEL DLX SNOW are SDLX models with SDLX
meaning Super Deluxe.
SR, SX, VS, SR5 and AV-II are sports and performance models
SR SPORTS PKG., SX SPORTS PKG./ACTIVE PKG., VS SPORTS PKG./ACTIVE PKG. AND AV-II TOURING SPECIAL are all GT models. SR Sports 5, SX Sports 5 and VS Sports 5 preceded all 3 Sports Pkg. models and there was no GT model of the Carib, SPECIFICALLY, until May 1986 ----> Therefore any -8605 model of that would-be Carib model would have to be the most fully-loaded (fully-equipped) model of the AV-II you could get at that time w/ or w/o an A/T.
When I said unmarked SR5, I literally mean UNMARKED SR5, meaning a sports model supposed to be an SR5 with no SR5 emblems on rear garnish or side protection mouldings. The model you claimed had no SR5 badges was not an SR5 model or unmarked SR5 model, that was a Hi-Deluxe model because it used Luxury seats in this case with STD model headrests and two-tone paint and therefore otherwise pass as a European model, despite probably being sold in Egypt. The SR5 model for EUR and GEN was introduced, as I said almost a million times, in January 1983.
There is much evidence that Toyota contradicted themselves in the sense of model codes and production dates.
They even called a JDM 5TH GEN Corolla AE8# Liftback DELUXE model an SX just before calling it a GL
GL = GRANDE LUXE (French "Grand Luxury")
DLX = DELUXE, DE LUXE or deLuxe (French "Of Luxury")
CL = CUSTOM LUXURY used on NUMMI's CHEVROLET Nova
XL = EXTRA LUXURY? (used on JDM version of NUMMI's
CHEVROLET Nova)
VL = ???? LUXURY
GX = GRAND EXTRA?
SX = SPORTS EXTRA?
DLX can also be written DL
GL can also be written GLX
SE = Special or Super Edition
LE = USA/CND equivalent of SE; Limited or Luxury Edition
terceldude wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2025 7:20 pm
And I already used a Swedish guy to get me the Swedish brochures. He will get back to me within a week. Got the 1985 Swedish brochure also. It matches with the 85 Australian brochure
I am glad that you have found the brochures you are looking for. Hopefully they include the information that you are looking for.
By the way I have two Finnish brochures also as well as a Finnish accessories brochure from Huuto.net
That is a good list of abbreviations. I did not know all of them before.
Maybe the most important thought is your comment: "There is much evidence that Toyota contradicted themselves in the sense of model codes and production dates." So you can prove Toyota wrong but please provide some attachments so all members can see why.
According to my understanding a model code is made for cars that share approximately similar transmission, engine, emission systems etc. They all can have slightly different look in interior and exterior. This theory is not a bulletproof one. I base my claim to previously presented Sprinter Carib model table, which you say is not logical.
This discussion summarizes why it is worth to discuss and to prove more information to help us all understand better differences between different market areas. For example here in Finland applies DLX = DX. All of our 4wd Tercels were DX trim with wide side trims and with inclinometer as you can read in Finnish from your Finnish brochures found from huuto.net. The basic models of FWD Tercel, Corolla and Starlet were called here Super. One super version of AL20 is: 1.3 Super 3d Tercel AL20L-ZGKRSW. According to Toyotas spare part catalog trim code of Super Tercel is STD. So here be have a Finnish example that model name does not need to be same as spare part catalog trim. I have attached Finnish price list as evidence of the super/std trim. Another funny thing is that fwd AL20 Tercel has "DX" emblem that is suitable to "DLX" Tercel according to spare part catalog. So Toyota did really use "DX" emblem for Deluxe trim in FWD Tercels.
Actually it would be interesting to document exactly how are SR5 models sportier against DLX models to the separate SR5 thread. SR5 models have usually around 20kg/50lbs heavier curb. weight with same engine output. Therefore SR5 models have weaker power to weight ratio according to both U.S. and Australian brochures, which means slower acceleration in most cases. Especially with either 62ps. or with 71ps.
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Nordical25 wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2024 3:37 am
Here are some details of gen. spec. Tercel 4wd straight from a 1985 brochure.
I also have two copies of that same brochure both from September 1984 and one from the Netherlands directly and one indirectly from New Zealand. I also have the September 1982 one
Are you sure that this is a brochure from the Netherlands? That is a gen spec. Tercel for sure! And the grill has the 1982-1984 4wd font. It says Tercel but not further dealer details in the first page at least. So I am interested in further details for sure.
Clearly it's funny that you never read what I said because you are confusing my 82 one with the one I said had the Netherlands dealership sticker
Hey Nordica, open this file Modellenprogram ma 1985 and you will see proof they sold the GEN market model in EUROPE also despite Toyota's lies or discrepancies on it: https://www.autoweek.nl/autobrochures/t ... gle.com%2F
