Some odd Clutch/driveline issues

[Petros]

that filler plug is a PIA to reach, it is up in the tunnel just ahead of the rear cross member. the three chambers of the manual tran (transfer case, main case, and front diff housing) are internally connected, so you can fill it from any of the filler plugs on the side of the three housings. I like using the front one on the drivers side (left side) of the diff housing, just aft and above the left cv axle. It is the easiest to reach, I fill it from the engine compartment with several feet of clear tubing (1/2" or 12mm) on a funnel or one of those filler caps that you put on the oil container (only a few $ from Wal Mart or Autozone). Also, I jack up the car so the side with the filler plug is high, and the front end is higher than the rear, that way you can get a bit extra gear oil in it.

sometimes it fills very slowly, so DO NOT go by if gear oil is flowing out of the hole that it is full. IF it is fully drained (remove all three drain plugs), and you are refilling it, it should take about 4 quarts or exactly 4 liters to fill it. If you did not get that much in it, let it sit for a bit and than try again. I hang a gallon jug from the open hood and allow it fill slowly through a clear filler hose so I can see if it still flowing. If you do not get enough gear oil in it your risk damaging your trans. I wrecked a good transmission early on by not putting enough gear oil in it, thinking it was full when gear oil started dripping out the filler hole as I was filling it.

I recommend using 3 quarts of good quality gear lube oil, and one quart of full synthetic gear oil. This trans was not designed for the very slippery synthetic gear oil, if you run all synthetic it will weep out the seals and you will get gear clashing because the syncros will not work properly (they are designed to work by friction, and the very slippery synthetic oil will make them not work at all).

good luck.

[84sr54wd]

my manual says to fill it from the right side, but I have always used the left side plug

Oh ok, that hole is on the exhaust side though and hard to get to.....I was thinking of using a hole on the driver's side.

[84sr54wd]

that filler plug is a PIA to reach, it is up in the tunnel just ahead of the rear cross member. the three chambers of the manual tran (transfer case, main case, and front diff housing) are internally connected, so you can fill it from any of the filler plugs on the side of the three housings. I like using the front one on the drivers side (left side) of the diff housing, just aft and above the left cv axle. It is the easiest to reach, I fill it from the engine compartment with several feet of clear tubing (1/2" or 12mm) on a funnel or one of those filler caps that you put on the oil container (only a few $ from Wal Mart or Autozone). Also, I jack up the car so the side with the filler plug is high, and the front end is higher than the rear, that way you can get a bit extra gear oil in it.

sometimes it fills very slowly, so DO NOT go by if gear oil is flowing out of the hole that it is full. IF it is fully drained (remove all three drain plugs), and you are refilling it, it should take about 4 quarts or exactly 4 liters to fill it. If you did not get that much in it, let it sit for a bit and than try again. I hang a gallon jug from the open hood and allow it fill slowly through a clear filler hose so I can see if it still flowing. If you do not get enough gear oil in it your risk damaging your trans. I wrecked a good transmission early on by not putting enough gear oil in it, thinking it was full when gear oil started dripping out the filler hole as I was filling it.

I recommend using 3 quarts of good quality gear lube oil, and one quart of full synthetic gear oil. This trans was not designed for the very slippery synthetic gear oil, if you run all synthetic it will weep out the seals and you will get gear clashing because the syncros will not work properly (they are designed to work by friction, and the very slippery synthetic oil will make them not work at all).

good luck.

Ok very good information.....So I bought 75w90 Valvoline made for GL-5 and all manuals including those that are synchronized. I believe it is synthetic though. Are you saying that this will not work? I have gone through looking at a ton of gear oil and talking to the auto store folks trying to understand WHAT gear oil should work. According to the FSM and other info, 75w90 hypoid for synchronized manuals that is API GL-5 should do it.

Apart from that, I cannot even get the trans back in. I had it on the lift and under the motorcycle lift supported on logs yesterday, got the clutch kit in and everything ready to go. I had a neighbor and friend over and between all of us, I spent 9 hours trying to realign it, all to naught. I have never been so pissed off. I cannot get the input shaft of the trans to go into the clutch disk hole. As close as I can get it is pressing dead center onto the wall thickness of the clutch disk splined shaft....I can use a mirror on a long rod and flashlight and see that it is so close, but cannot get the trans positioned to allow me to slip it in. Plus that thing is nothing but dead weight sitting on the lift, it cannot be pushed or moved much. I used paint to mark the input shaft hole so when I got the trans aligned as best I could, I could see if I were too high/low right or left. The clutch lever sticking out of the side of the trans is in the way too, and if I compress it too much against the firewall in all of the jossling around, the damn spring pops off the TOB/Release beariing and I have to drop the whole trans, fix that and start over. There is NO room in that trans tunnel and I have no idea what i am going to have to do to get it back together. I remember someone saying when you take it out, it has to be rotated clockwise because of that lever (im assuming clockwise if you are under the car at the back of the trans looking forward towards the bell housing). This SHOULD mean going back, you should jack it up with a clockwise tilt towards the passengers side to line it up, then once you can get the small end of the input shaft in the bigger whole of the clutch disk, you can rotate and rock it counterclockwise a bit. I've tried it all, I've disonnected the exhaust by taking out the converter as well so that the engine is free to rotate down as much as possible....im sitting on the rack with the back of the pan, so will not go more. I also noticed when I was installing the clutch and flywheel that with the engine leaning back and down a bit it appears to have a slight twist to it...like it did not pivot down 100% evenly on the motor mounts. When I move the trans up....I have to account for that. Im under there jacking it a little here, a little there, trying to wiggle it here and there, sticking a little block of wood in the front, the back, the side.....trying to hit the sweet spot. 9 hours of that and still nothing. I'm beyond pissed off. LOL!

[dlb]

there are many different opinions on synthetic gear oil. many members here run it without issues, and prefer it.

https://tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9667

have you tried removing the input shaft and installing it after getting the trans in place? i remember a few members talking about that before.

also, did you use a clutch alignment tool? they usually come in the clutch kits. i can't imagine the 'old days' of replacing a clutch without that tool.

[marlinh]

The transmission should go in easily if you remove the input shaft. You should have received a line up tool with the clutch kit. If the clutch has dropped out of place, you will have troubles.

9 hours is a long time and your frustration must be immense. Line up the clutch again and remove the input shaft. It will make a difference of night and day. Good luck.

[jimcrazy]

or just use the input shaft as a tool after you take it out

[Jarf]

This is interesting. I have always eye-balled the alignment and never had a problem, in fact the only time I have had a problem was when I was using a tool but perhaps the issue was with the "tool" holding it??
I have also found that putting a jack under the front of the engine can give you enough angle to slip the trans into position.
9 hours, I am impressed.
I would have set fire to it at about the 5hr mark

[larry mcgrath]

I'De have torchas this at bout 2hrs, this makes a point for good shops Larry

[xirdneh]

if the input shaft got bent during removal
that could be a problem
i have only seen one bent one
may be rare but it can happen

[84sr54wd]

It's done, back together and running well. I went out the next day after taking the night off to sleep which I did poorly. LOL.....The clutch disk was aligned properly using the tool when I installed the new clutch disk and pressure plate. That was all good and never the issue. I had the car in the air about 4 feet sitting on huge solid oak logs, used my lift to raise it and get it secure then dropped the lift out from under it so I could work leaving the car 4 feet in the air sitting on the logs. Then I was using a motorcycle lift with two parallel support brackets with cross members between the two sitting up on two other tree stumps I cut...placed a board across them and set the lift on the board with the trans on it. Then used the motorcycle jack to raise and lower the trans into place. The night before, I was raising the trans up, getting it basically what looked like perfectly in place but the end of the input shaft was not getting into the splined hole. I was using a mirror on the end of a long retractable rod and a bright led light to illuminate the inside of the bell housing so I could see where the shaft was hitting. Because it is hard to place what you are looking at through a small crack inside the trans when it is just half inch gap, I marked the input shaft with bright white paint so that when I raised the trans and looked in there, I could place whereabouts the shaft was hitting the area to know what to do with the trans. I could get the end of the input shaft to be hitting dead on the wall thickness of the splned shaft bore in the clutch disk, but it would not go about 1/4 inch higher to pop in. I messed with it for several hours and could not get that trans to go where it needed to. The way the motorcycle jack was set up, if I raised the trans a little, the jack also brought it forward a little.....so if the input shaft was pegging any part of the metal making up the sidewall of the clutch disk bore, when I raised it more, moving it forward it just pressed harder into the trans. So, the next morning, I got it in this position and thought, let me take a large crowbar and press the bell housing between the bell housing and pressure plate. This pressed the trans away from the input shaft just enough to then pop the shaft in the hole. Then it was just a matter of moving the two units a little at a time till I could line up the bolt holes and get the trans even and pull the two together making sure the pilot bearing lined up right. Then the rest was just getting it all back together. I had rigged all sorts of stuff in the garage and cannot imagine doing this job if I had to do it on the ground with jack stands. My scissor lift was instrumental in this process. Solid red oak logs are a great thing to use to support the car too so I could get the lift out of the way. It blocked access to the rear of the trans.

Good news, no more driveline issues, smooth take off, easy to operate clutch. Nice to see the fruits of your labor after all that work.

I had no idea you can remove the input shaft from the trans then install it after. I guess those four bolts i think it was directly behind the head of the bell housing come out and you can take it all apart? That is VERY tightly put in there with the top of the trans tunnel. Not sure what my opinion of that is, LOL...once that trans is in there, that part of the trans is super close to the top of the trans tunnel up top. This is a very interesting transmission. You have a transaxle, transmission and transfer case all in one. The bell housing is on top and forward of it all and so the power coming into the transmission is then sent down lower into the transaxle and transmission. It is a very interesting looking gearbox. All in all was a great learning experience and very successful.

[84sr54wd]

Oh....one other thing that is a complete pain in the ass while doing this job is the clutch lever that sticks out of the side of the trans bell housing on the drivers side. If this lever gets depressed too much against the firewall while you are trying to jockey the trans in place, the damn TOB/release bearing gets too far towards the end of the input shaft and the spring on it pops out of the two lever arms that operate it, causing you to have to drop the trans down on the lift and reset it all up. You have to make sure that level does not get mashed against the firewall too much and thus compressed to much. That was frustrating the hell out of me....i was afraid it was going to get too far out and fly apart but I would not know it and put it together....so I kept checking that bearing each time I saw that the lever was kind of marginal as to being too depressed while I was trying to get the trans lined up. if they had put that lever on the shaft with a nut that allows the removal of the lever while moving the trans around, then you could get it lined up and then put the lever back on and tighten the nut, this would not be an issue. You do NOT want that spring in there to get hyper extended because the clutch lever got mashed flush against the bell housing by you moving the trans around trying to line it up.

[xirdneh]

clutch lever
thats why you rotate the tranny counter clockwise as you install it
so the lever misses the body
but that is hard to do when doing it alone and with tranny supported on blocks

[84sr54wd]

clutch lever
thats why you rotate the tranny counter clockwise as you install it
so the lever misses the body
but that is hard to do when doing it alone and with tranny supported on blocks

Exactly....I was with the tranny on blocks on my motorcycle lift and you cannot turn that heavy gearbox by yourself...just too much to manage. I even had someone else behind the rear of it trying to help at times and we could cock it a little sideways, but not much. That is nothing but dead weight. Now, if I was in an ideal setup, I'd have the car on a lift so I could stand under it with a proper trans jack that tilts in every direction. I was doing it in a less than ideal way, however, many of you have done it in much harder predicaments than I without being able to get the car as high as I way. I am just glad to be done.....now I can finally get my hands clean and let all the little scratches heal. Fun job, glad it is done LOL!!!

[84sr54wd]

here are some pics.

[dlb]

great pics, nice set up!