'85 T4WD "Zombie"

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MR2Di4
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My tercel:: 1985 SR5 4WD Wagon
Location: Ketchikan, Alaska

Re: '85 T4WD "Zombie"

Post by MR2Di4 »

Ok, Terc fans time for a weekend update...

After removing the blower resistor and watching it crumble at the lightest touch, I figured that was my problem, until I noticed the butt-spliced wiring to the blower motor. Someone had replaced it before and I got to looking closer at some previous repairs intended to keep water out of the outside air intakes at the base of the windshield. This wasn't the first time it had been worked on and sure enough after fighting incorrect screws I removed the blower to find it completely seized as well. New parts are on order...

Turning my attention to the gas tank I removed it to some more bad news; the rust is worse than I thought back there but at least the main strength rails of the unibody seem intact. At this point I can't fix much other than the new Panhard bracket, mainly I'm interested in encapsulation and containment now. I am in the process of cleaning and examining the actual tank for leaks, but my primary attention turned to the filler neck where I first noticed gas leaking. The more I cleaned and scraped, the more pinholes emerged, the more JB Weld I mixed and applied to and around any holes. After the JB Weld sets the neck will get a good coat of self-etching primer, and the whole tank a coat of truck bed liner. Ive found it to be great stuff for anything that needs a super-tough coating! Plus I think I'll put some below the belt-line on the doors and outside as well.

Image Image Image Image Image

Will shoot some more pics tomorrow or the next day...

MR2Di4 8)
'85 4WD SR5 S/W (Winter Daily Driver)
'88 Toy Truck (Summer Daily Driver)
'86 4WD AT S/W (First T4WD, long gone...)
'88 MR2 N/A (Namesake College Car, also long gone...)
'70 AMX (Family Heirloom, will never be gone...)
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dlb
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My tercel:: '87 sr5, '83 dlx parts car
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Re: '85 T4WD "Zombie"

Post by dlb »

wow, that is pretty rust. honestly though, i've learned to take pride in a vehicle that disintegrates long before it's ready to die. when maintained well, it think of rust patches like badges of honour. no joke. i pretty much came full circle in my opinion on the topic over the last few years.

that's a very different filler neck from the ones i've seen. i'm really curious to see how the JB weld works. it's done amazing things for me in the past, i love the stuff. the self-etching primer and bed liner also sound like great ideas. good luck!

i've used bed liner on the bottom of my last terc, i loved it. i'll probably do it on my 4wd corolla sometime too.
Jarf
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Re: '85 T4WD "Zombie"

Post by Jarf »

MR2 - You should lift those little rubber isolator pads off the tank before reinstalling. On mine, I found significant rust hiding under them.
After a while I realized that any place there was rust above the tank (surface rust on the spare well) there was a corresponding patch on the tank, 'cept on the tank side, it wasn't surface rust but actual perforations.
If I were you I would deal with some of those rusty bits while you in there, even if you just glass it up, the quietude that will ensue, is truly amazing.
I did a quickie patch job 2 yrs ago (glass in November) and while I didn't expect it to last more than 6 months, I was most impressed with the noise
reduction that came along with the repairs.
I hope JB works better for you than it did for me, that tank looks just like my first one and I was never able to get ahead of the pinhole issue, though I never thought about bedliner at the time, perhaps that will make a big difference.
Dlb - Gas tank repair shops used to be all over the place but are getting harder to find these days. Gas Tank Renu is what we have here and they are a national franchise. Local Hotrodders can be a great source of info on where to get custom stuff made and maintained.
MR2Di4
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Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 1:06 am
My tercel:: 1985 SR5 4WD Wagon
Location: Ketchikan, Alaska

Re: '85 T4WD "Zombie"

Post by MR2Di4 »

It's been a lovely fall day here in Alaska-land and I've finally gotten a major repair completed! I'm a Journeyman Telephone tech by trade so I've been adapting certain items I use daily to accomplish some of the repairs to my Zombie Tercel. So after accumulating some scrapped out hardware I've cobbled together: The Cross Arm Bumper! What is that you say? Ever been in a rural area and seen telephone poles with horizontal wood beams bolted to them keeping phone, cable and whatever other lines in the air? Those beams are supporting thousands of pounds of cables secured to aluminized steel strand with breaking tension ratings of 10,000lbs or more. As unassuming as they are aerial cabling is built to withstand enormous stresses, even this famous Internet pic of a car hanging off them; it's not Photochopped, trust me.

Image Image Image Image Image
Components:
1 - 6 foot (measured 56" actually but whatever, it fits) pressure-treated wooden cross-arm
2 - galvanized pole stand off brackets (for holding conduit next to a pole after coming out of the ground)
2 - galvanized utility mast bracket front sections (have appropriate cut outs to hold carriage bolts)
4 - 3/8" galvanized carriage bolts, washers and nuts (about 6" long)
4 - 1/2" spring-loaded Unistrut nuts and Grade 8 bolts.
Image Image Image Image Image

The stand off brackets needed to have their curved flanges beaten flat and trimmed, then I had to take careful measurements and trim them down to allow the spring nut inserts to get to the original bumper bracket holes in the frame rails. I used what was left of the original bracket as a guide and trimmed accordingly for a proper fit. Getting them installed and aligned took awhile but after bolting them in I was left with a perfect platform to mount my weathered cross arm onto. The 30-odd years in the air gave the wood a really interesting grain so rather than planing them down I just scuffed the crud off with a wire brush then smoothed it with some coarse sandpaper and prepared to align it to the car. I was pleased to find out that the latching ring for the rear hatch measured out almost exactly dead-center so I used it as my measuring point. After holding the arm up with a jack to get the height for hatch clearance right and the arm centered, I marked the bracket's mounting holes and drilled them for the carriage bolts and mast brackets. Since I probably wouldn't be seeing whats left of the rear paneling for awhile a spritz of bedliner seemed in order to keep the cancer at bay. A quick coat of cheap flat black spray paint makes for a handsome bit of handiwork that's easy to care for and blends into the rest of the blue/black/rust theme I've got going on.

I actually put a quite a bit of thought into how I wanted to bolt this up since the original bumper mounts also had towing rings. I remember putting them to considerable (ab)use in my younger years helping friends out of bad places. I knew that the arm would already have holes from the previous hardware that I could put a bolt through, but I wanted something more directly connected to the new brackets for strength. The answer came from a mast clamp that I was grooming to replace a "rusted-into-non-existance" anti-sway bar mount on my axle. After flattening the standoff flange I discovered that the mast clamp's bolt spacing was identical. The 3/8" carriage bolts are what the clamp uses, normally I'd go bigger, but the standoff flange is drilled for 1/2" bolts so I can if I need to. If anything I would rather have something be a weaker link that will break before I yank the frame out of whack. I noticed after I put the bumper in place the mounting holes and clamps were not exactly the same height, but I'd rather have the bumper itself be straight than to dink around tweaking the brackets that probably weren't made to exact specs anyways. The mast clamps themselves aren't the strongest thing out there since they're used mainly for lighter weight drop cables to houses, but every one I've seen during repairs (to drops that were pulled down by falling trees or careless heavy equipment operators) have been in perfect shape so that's strong enough for me. Now all I need to do is pack a few shackles along with my tow rope and I'll be set to aid winter drivers or get myself pulled out without worry when I get too bold in the cold.

Whaddaya think eh?

MR2Di4 8)

[EDIT: This was today's project, tomorrow the tank gets attention and hopefully will be reinstalled for a trip to the gas station for another full tank to check for leaks. If my repairs hold I'll probably leave the rest of the rust alone and drive it for awhile. If not, I'll drive the tank out, drop it and see what is still leaking and probably do some fiberglass to patch the holes in the tire well and a few other rotten floorpan places I've found elsewhere. I'll post up some more pic of the gas tank repairs tomorrow, wish me luck!]
Last edited by MR2Di4 on Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
'85 4WD SR5 S/W (Winter Daily Driver)
'88 Toy Truck (Summer Daily Driver)
'86 4WD AT S/W (First T4WD, long gone...)
'88 MR2 N/A (Namesake College Car, also long gone...)
'70 AMX (Family Heirloom, will never be gone...)
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ARCHINSTL
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My tercel:: Goldie is a 1986 SR5 attualmente con Weber/also owned the first T4WD in STL in late '82
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Re: '85 T4WD "Zombie"

Post by ARCHINSTL »

VERY clever! Congrats!
Tom M.
T4WD augury?
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit."
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"
"Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates."
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dlb
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Re: '85 T4WD "Zombie"

Post by dlb »

wow, that rust in the back end is intense! i love that you're not giving up on it despite that. drive it into the ground, i say.

neat idea for a bumper. there have been a few different designs, one day someone will have to make a custom rear bumper compilation thread.

how is the gas tank coming? i want to see some pics of that too.
larry mcgrath
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Re: '85 T4WD "Zombie"

Post by larry mcgrath »

you did a nice job . great idea. in the past ive user roof shingles -heated up with a torch to seal over rust holes in the floor - just a passing thought . Good looking daily driver.
MR2Di4
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Posts: 77
Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 1:06 am
My tercel:: 1985 SR5 4WD Wagon
Location: Ketchikan, Alaska

Re: '85 T4WD "Zombie"

Post by MR2Di4 »

And now for the gas tank...

Image Image Image Image

I went to work carefully examining the tank and scraping at anything that looked rusted or any bulges in the existing coating. I was feeling pretty good until I examined the filler neck base and exposed a hole where I almost expected one to be right at the top where crud could accumulate. To get at it better I wound up removing the filler neck, rounding off a few of the bolts in the process. At least the actual gasket and mating surfaces were still in good condition. Just to be safe I smeared a ring of JB Weld around the whole base to seal up any weak spots my scraping missed. After giving it a coat of primer and appropriating a few screws and washers from around the shop I was able to get the filler neck reattached. My son Cameron watched from a safe distance while I applied the self-etching and bedliner, simply amazed at how I could change colors with a hissing rattling thing. Finally it was time to ease the tank back underneath and seeing how there were no bad spots beneath the existing coating on the underside I left it alone. It was a little more challenging getting it under and in position with my new bumper in the way, but after fussing with that stupid filler neck ring and gasket and reconnecting the fuel lines I can now say that it's completed. All that remains is to go down, fill it up and cross my fingers...

Image Image Image

MR2Di4 8)
'85 4WD SR5 S/W (Winter Daily Driver)
'88 Toy Truck (Summer Daily Driver)
'86 4WD AT S/W (First T4WD, long gone...)
'88 MR2 N/A (Namesake College Car, also long gone...)
'70 AMX (Family Heirloom, will never be gone...)
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GLet71
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My tercel:: '87 6-spd SR5 4wd Wagon
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Re: '85 T4WD "Zombie"

Post by GLet71 »

Sexy looking fuel tank. When can you do mine?
Currently:
Majorette France Tercel 4WD - Fini
Formerly:
'87 6spd SR5 4WD modified Wagon (Ron, the post-apocalyptic summer ride)
'87 6spd dlx 4wd Wagon (Pinkman Got Nuthin', aka Pinky)
'87 Auto dlx 4WD Wagon (Otto, temporary parts car)
'88 6spd SR5 4WD Wagon (Perry, the parts car)
MR2Di4
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Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 1:06 am
My tercel:: 1985 SR5 4WD Wagon
Location: Ketchikan, Alaska

Re: '85 T4WD "Zombie"

Post by MR2Di4 »

I'm riding a wave of euphoria so I might as well post up some recent pics of some beautiful days and some ugly parts getting repaired. But first a few beauty shots...

Image Image Image Image Image

We've had a pretty nice fall so far and clear blue skies are a rarity in these parts so I couldn't help capturing the Zombie Terc on a good day, but now lets get to the ugly bits...

Image Image Image Image

The rear axle bearings and seals came in finally so after reading a few threads on removing them I felt pretty confident I could do this repair myself. Using the brake drum and lugnuts I managed to get the left side axle out with little issue. The bearing was pretty wobbly, but it seemed to come out ok. I actually had more trouble coaxing it past the backing plate than actually removing the axle assembly. Feeling confident I moved over to the right side, and got everything unbolted but no matter how many little inch-long strikes using the drum loosely attached with evenly spaced lugnuts the goddamned bearing wouldn't budge! After coating the bearing with penetrating oil, rapping the surrounding axle tube lightly with a ball-peen hammer and using more than a few creative curses I took a break for dinner. By now it was getting late and my kids had to get to bed so I needed to think quick on how to get the axle out.

The solution came when I started looking at some of the leftover parts from my recent bumper construction and found two hooks that could be used with bolts and washers to attach to the axle hub using the retainer nut access holes on either side. The hooks were given a crossing bolt with a couple of nuts and a eyebolt. I had a piece of 1/2" Allthread in my shop that threaded neatly into the eyebolt so with the addition of a few nuts/washers and using the brake drum as my weight, I now had what I hoped to be a functional slide hammer. Once that was all ready, I took one practice strike and then gave three more stronger swings which finally broke the bearing free. And no wonder; the bearing seat on the right was coated with rust, although the beyond the seal into the axle tube itself looks ok. But just that awesome moment of accomplishment after two hours of frustration had me going "YEEEES!!! I AM INVINCIBLE!!!!" loud enough to wake my younger daughter inside.* I know I'll have to carefully clean and regrease both sides and install the new seals before re-installing the axles. A mechanic at my company's maintenance shop offered to remove the old bearings and press the new ones on for me so with any luck I should have the axles back in tomorrow evening.

Image

No, I didn't forget the results of the gas tank repair either. For the most part it would appear my repairs worked although I'm not certain this is a factory tank. Whomever mounted this thing had the straps right up against the lip of the tank in the rear which caused the contact points to bend upwards, almost like the tank wasn't quite the correct model or just a really cheap knockoff. Even though I cleaned and coated this area I did detect a little seepage from these bent areas of the tank flange, but it would seem that the not-quite cured bedliner I'd applied oozed and re-sealed the tank because after the initial fill up the leaks didn't appear anymore. I'll have to keep an eye on it, but if needs be I may be able to JB weld them too without dropping the whole tank again.

MR2Di4 8)
* Yeah, I'm weird. I know...
'85 4WD SR5 S/W (Winter Daily Driver)
'88 Toy Truck (Summer Daily Driver)
'86 4WD AT S/W (First T4WD, long gone...)
'88 MR2 N/A (Namesake College Car, also long gone...)
'70 AMX (Family Heirloom, will never be gone...)
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dlb
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Re: '85 T4WD "Zombie"

Post by dlb »

your home built slide hammer is awesome. no kidding it only took 4 strikes for it to bust the axle free. i wonder if you were following my difficulties removing a rear axle last week. i managed to get it with the flipped drum but it took time, sweat, and PB blaster. i have a feeling yours was worse.

the reason the bearings rust to the axle housing is that the drain holes in the backing plate and axle housing get clogged with crap and allow water to get stuck in the bearing area. be sure to clean those drain holes by scraping them out with a flat blade screw driver, and not overdo the silicone gasket when putting the retainer and backing plate back on the axle housing. i've seen overzealous silicone completely clog the drain holes. check this pertinent post for drain hole locations:

https://tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3& ... 554#p42553

i know your frustration in persistent gas tank leaks. we have a vw westfalia that had a rusty gas tank which kept fouling fuel filters. i replaced the tank, which was a real PITA on that vehicle (and like every other job on it), and the next time we filled it up it leaked. the worst part was we were many hours from home at this point. dropped the tank in a parking lot on our vacation and found i should have replaced the expansion tank hoses while doing the tank. repaired it, found it STILL leaked a bit but only when filled up, so we only filled 3/4 full for the rest of the trip. dropped the tank at home a few months later and did the job AGAIN. you think i'd be an ace at that job by now but it's such a lousy, difficult design that it's never easy. did i mention that van is now for sale?
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Petros
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Re: '85 T4WD "Zombie"

Post by Petros »

nice work MR2. Make very sure the shop guy gets the retainer collar on the axle bearing in the correct direction or the seal will not seal against it properly. the retainer collar has a taper and it must go on in the correct direction. BTW, to remove the old collar you have to deform it by striking it with a very large metal chisel and a big hammer. So you only have one shot at getting the new retainer collar on in the correct direction or you can not get it off without damaging it.

You will find the car will be a lot more quiet and nicer to drive with new rear bearings. It will help you find other noises once the rear bearings are quiet.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
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ARCHINSTL
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My tercel:: Goldie is a 1986 SR5 attualmente con Weber/also owned the first T4WD in STL in late '82
Location: Kirkwood, a 'burb of St. Louis

Re: '85 T4WD "Zombie"

Post by ARCHINSTL »

MR2Di4 -
Bravo! How about posting another pix of your field-expediency slide hammer and some words in the Tool Talk Forum?
Tom M.
T4WD augury?
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit."
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"
"Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates."
Mark Twain
MR2Di4
Advanced Member
Posts: 77
Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 1:06 am
My tercel:: 1985 SR5 4WD Wagon
Location: Ketchikan, Alaska

Re: '85 T4WD "Zombie"

Post by MR2Di4 »

I've finally got my axles in! My friend got the bearings and retainers mounted correctly on the axles so I was all set to go when I got home from work Friday, until family matters and work requests got in the way so it wasn't until Sunday afternoon that I had a chance to get everything put back together.

Image Image Image Image

I think I spent more time just scraping and cleaning the mating surfaces than I actually did installing the axles. Looking back I probably should have left the seals alone, because they weren't that bad and by the time I got them out and the new ones in I was beginning to realize that this wouldn't be perfect. I did however take special care to clean and avoid gooping up the drain passages during reassembly. For some reason the manual says the nuts aren't reusable, but I figured a couple drops of Red Threadlocker should keep them snug. They came off a little too easily on disassembly, so snugging them back up with a torque wrench felt good. The left side went together the smoothest, except for the e-brake lever in the way. (I hate drum brakes.) Apparently the cable on that side is seized, so I'll need to address that later. Moving to the nastier side, I got more aggressive with the scraping and sharpened up some of the dull-ish tools I'd been using to make it easier. The drain passages had been severely blocked here too, plus the wheel cylinder showed some possible signs of leakage but that wasn't my big worry. What bothered me is that the retainer flange had a big hole rusted through it where the blocked up drain passage was. The flange still appeared serviceable and hadn't buckled, but like I said, this wasn't going to be perfect so I soldiered on and made damn sure to apply the grease liberally to the bearing. After everything was torqued down I checked both sides carefully to see that the RTV had squeezed out uniformly from the mating surfaces giving me a good seal. I didn't "go nuts" with it either, just a little bead spread out thinly with my finger. But finally I was able to clean the brake shoes and drums and get everything put back on for a test drive...

...and what a difference it made! It's sooooo much better now that my back end doesn't sound like a sink disposal! The rust issues on this thing are starting to worry me however. Despite what the previous owners knew about it's history (that it's never been used to tow a skiff or launch boats) this thing has had it's ass-end in salt-water! Several times over it's life, judging by the amount of rust I've had to deal with so far, to where the salty death was allowed to collect without being rinsed off by driving in our normally rainy weather and got into places where it wouldn't ever be flushed out. I'm just hoping now that I'm not wasting my time/money and this thing does it's job getting me through winter. Especially since my next task is a biggie...

...replacing the clutch. Stay tuned!

MR2Di4 8)

[EDIT: I did make a post in the existing thread concerning Rear Axles and Slide Hammers in the Tool Talk forum...]
'85 4WD SR5 S/W (Winter Daily Driver)
'88 Toy Truck (Summer Daily Driver)
'86 4WD AT S/W (First T4WD, long gone...)
'88 MR2 N/A (Namesake College Car, also long gone...)
'70 AMX (Family Heirloom, will never be gone...)
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dlb
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My tercel:: '87 sr5, '83 dlx parts car
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Re: '85 T4WD "Zombie"

Post by dlb »

good work, mr2. the next time you have the rear wheels off, you should take a pic of the hole in the retainer flange that you mentioned. are you talking about the outer retainer, which sits between the axle housing flange and brake backing plate?

yes, your car certainly has some of the worst rust i've seen on a running t4. a weak point in the back end is where the panhard arm attaches to the rear axle. i've seen those rusted and broken off on a few t4s. how is yours? what about the upper end where it attaches to the frame? also, where the trailing arms attach to the frame would be worth thoroughly inspecting. you really don't want the rear axle to start falling off while you're heading down the road! i didn't realize the panhard arm on my current project was not connected when i bought it and drove it home. it drove fine until i hit a big corner at 80 km/h on the highway and the car suddenly started skipping. not too bad but enough to make my heart jump. i eased off the throttle, slowed down, and the skipping resolved, but when i got home i saw that the panhard arm was connected to the rear axle only by zip ties! i could see by the wear marks on the rear sway bar that the axle actually shifted about 1/2" to the driver side...scary stuff!

good luck with the clutch, keep us posted.
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