Recommend source for replacement radiator

[Petros]

I have had tercels with both single and double row radiators. I drove one across Texas in 104 deg heat of summer with a single row rad without issues. but another time I drove an auto trans T4wd with a single row and the temp climbed on all up hill runs or when I got about 70 mph. The single row works good enough for most driving conditions, but is right on the edge of supplying enough cooling capancity if there is any addition load or in high temp areas. I would not use a single row rad in the heavier T4wd, and espcialloy not with an auto trans, if I had a choice. I have used them if I had nothing else available, but it does not give you any excess cooling capacity.

There is nothing wrong with stop leak, all manufacturers put stop leak in the new cars so they do not have to track down every little pin-hole leak or block porosity that will seep coolant. It will not affect the cooling system capacity, the water jacket or the radiator. Any hole small enough to be blocked by the stop-leak is too small to be useful internal to the engine. Tiny cooling passageways are bad design features and should not existing an a cooling system.

[stanrob]

(1) There seems to be a real clash on stopleak! Why would our colleague be saying don't use stopleak? Is he just plain mistaken, like I am much of the time?

(2) To deal with the proposition that winter warmup uses more gas with a thicker than with a thinner radiator: is there any actual data out there? (We do have mean winters here!)

[irowiki]

I don't think you're going to notice any real difference in winter warmups with different radiator sizes (I think you're over thinking it!)

[Petros]

(1) There seems to be a real clash on stopleak! Why would our colleague be saying don't use stopleak? Is he just plain mistaken, like I am much of the time?

A lot of people are fearful of any "foreign stuff" in the cooling system, fearing it might plug up the water passaage ways or cause deposits inside the engine that could harm it. Mostly it is out of ignorance, and kind of "auto-urban Myth", stuff that gets passed around by mechanics and self proclaimed experts. Some even claim they have pulled apart engines that were all plugged up with stop leak. I call BS, it never happens. I am an real expert, I have worked as an automotive engineer for a number of years in a past life. I designed several engines and cooling systems, factory turbo systems and was involved with a factory backed racing development team (for Nissan when they had a US racing program), and I know as much about cooling system design as anyone in the country. Every car manufacturer includes stop leak of some sort in the factory new cars, it will not harm a thing. I too have rebuilt many, many, many engines (including tweaking for better performance), and I have pulled apart engine that I put lots and lots of stop leak into (to try and keep the head gasket from blowing all the coolant out the exhaust), and have NEVER found any deposited or plugged passageways during tear down and rebuild.

Stop leak is not really a permanent fix, but it is a perfectly good stop gap until you can get the time and parts together for a long term and permanent repair. At worst it will not stop the coolant loss, and it will never harm the engine.

((2) To deal with the proposition that winter warmup uses more gas with a thicker than with a thinner radiator: is there any actual data out there? (We do have mean winters here!)

The larger radiator has nothing to do with warm up time, that would be identical with either size radiator because of the thermostat. No coolant cirucuates though the radiator when the engine is below operating temp (it circulates through the heater only). once it warms up it will shift the flow from the heater to partcially through the radiator. It will only direct all of the coolant flow through the radiator when you are at your cooling limit, meaning any additional heat load and it will over heat. you never want to be at that limit, the larger radiator means you have that much more capacity before you hit the limit. It is a properly working thermostat that control the warm up and temperature regulation, not the size of the radiator. Bigger is better, it gives you more reserve cooling capacity for any extra demand that you may put on it.

[jimcrazy]

I put my new wagon on the road mid april, never had a problem with it heating up until the last week or so now that summer is finely here, yesterday went on a road trip 100 miles each way temperature was in the high 80s, one long hill on the highway the temp gauge creeped up to almost 3/4 the way then came back down slowly on the flat. got back home and it took 4-5 minutes at ilde for the fan to shut off,got looking around and found a piece of 1/4 plywood 11" sq tucked in front of the rad blocking off about 90% off the fan shoud. where the car spent its life you could have left it in there year round with out a problem of it over heating. I have put 9500 miles on it in 3 months and that's the first time its heated up

[dlb]

wow! i'm sure that was a surprise but at least it was an easy fix. it's similar to what i had to do with my car when i lived in edmonton and commuted to work in -20 and -30 C but i zip-tied cardboard over the grill.

[jimcrazy]

I like easy fixes now the fan runs for 20-30 seconds to cool her down when sitting ilding

[stanrob]

Apparent conflict in views on benefit of blocking airflow for extreme cold climate driving:

Longtime mechanic petros said: "No coolant circulates though the radiator when the engine is below operating temp (it circulates through the heater only)."

Meanwhile, earlier, dlb had said: "i've found in practice that in extreme cold temps like anything below -20 C, the only way i could get the engine up to normal operating temps was to block the radiator. i guess this is because the t-stat is not a perfect seal, and always allows at least a small amount of coolant to move through the rad."

[irowiki]

Blocking the radiator also blocks a good chunk of airflow to the rest of the engine, so it would naturally get warmer that way too.

[ARCHINSTL]

My then-new '64 Volvo 122S (next to Goldie and Whitie, the best car I ever owned) had a sort of window shade installation in front of the radiator. It was operated by a pull chain at the bottom left of the dashboard. It could be raised to any level. I know SAABs of the era had this too, but dunno if any other European cars of that day also had this feature.
It worked quite well.
Tom M.

[jimcrazy]

going on a quick road trip tonite about 250 miles round trip will see if the old temp gauge creeps up. its 85 here today with a feel temp of 96, it will be a good test for her most of it will 70mph on the highway

[irowiki]

When we bought the 83, I noticed slight overheating at 75 MPH on our drive home. During our first stop, I was checking stuff (as it was daylight then) and the entire front of the radiator was blocked with card board! Took all that out and she's run like a champ since. Has a nice replacement all metal radiator too.

[jimcrazy]

road trip went well did my best to make her heat up and the old gauge never went past half way, the happy valley wagon is happy again

[stanrob]

Hello Friends, I did finally replace with a new single-row, Chinese made. First "big" trip (150 mi. one way, big for us) was on a 95 degree day, loaded to the gills with two 40-pound bikes hanging on the back, up plenty of hills, at 60-65mph . It worked perfectly. It was the same trip that caused overheating a year ago.

HOWEVER, when I checked I found gradual coolant loss, over a quart in 500 miles. Coupled with this, at our destination, the engine began misfiring, even at idle. I had replaced all 4 plugs fairly recently. I pulled out the plugs and found 2, 3, and 4 perfect but heavy deposits built up on #1. Out in the sticks, I was able to scrape all those deposits off and reinstalled it in position #2, restoring full power for the trip back home and for now. I am led to believe I may have a head gasket leak. I guess a compression test is in order (for which I'm not equipped), the possibility of needing head gasket replacement and work that goes with it.

Meanwhile, a new catastrophe: This morning on my way to a medical appointment, my left front strut suddenly let go, releasing the spring to scrape on and be rotated by the tire. Inadvisedly, I managed to scrape along for the mile back home. Evidently the fix is replacing that strut, probably the other one too, for which I lack the tools. This means a tow job and some $$$. My other half has exclusive control of our "other" (2007 Corolla) car, so I've got a crisis on my hands.

I can handle the $$$ (I think), but there is a question of judgment. I love that car dearly. I don't think I'll ever find one like it in New England. I've recently replaced the radiator, the horn, four tires, brake cables, master brake cylinder and one slave, and more. But it has a crumbling body and two big issues I can't fix by myself. Is it time for me to bail out?

[Petros]

I would fix both of those issues, it can be all fixed on one saturday for less than $100. struts are normal maintenance, and you will need a head gasket sooner or later after you overheating episode.

The strut is not a big deal, I have had that happen before, some some reason the carriage retaining nut backs off and allows the strut to come apart, and the spring to flop around on the seats because there is nothing holding the top and bottom of the strut together other than the shaft slopping around in the tube, and it will allow it to over extend on the rebound since the upper nut is not holding it in place.

You can pull the strut assembly out yourself, and than take it to a shop where they have a spring compressor and can install a new insert and put it all back together for you. than you put the assembly back into the car yourself. it will save you over half the labor costs, the struts do not cost much.

The head gasket is a big job, but it can be done in one afternoon if you have the right tools. This is not unusal if you overheated the engine, the 3ac is a reliable engine, but they will not tolerate being overheated without needed a new head gasket. the good news is the parts are fairly durable and you should not need a completely rebuilt head, just the head gasket. all you need to rent or buy is a torque wrench for the installation. A head gasket, head pipe gasket, and perhaps two 0-rings for the water pump by pass, is all you need in parts (you can spend some extra time and replace the valve seals while you are at it, but that adds a lot of time), parts should not cost more than $30. (do not buy the head gasket kit, you get too much stuff you will not use). I can replace a head gasket in about 3 to 4 hours with hand tools, but I have done it about 30 times. you might figure about six hours, presuming nothing breaks or you find nothing else that needs to be replaced. go read my thread on this topic over in the repair guilds section. Just make sure you have all the necessary tools and parts on hand as I outline over in the repair guides section.

It would not be worth paying a shop to replace the head gasket, there is a good chance they will mess it up, and they will charge you $600 or more, likely replace parts that are good and charge you to do it. if you pay someone to do these repairs you will be looking at close to $1000, and unless the car is in good condition, is a questionable expenditure.

OTHO, even if both take you a whole weekend to do yourself, and you spend $100. plus have to buy a few tools to get the job done. Where can you get a replacement car like this for that little effort? with the new head gasket the engine should be good for another 100k miles, presuming you do the proper maintenance on it. you have the skills to do it yourself, it is not that difficult. many mechanics are not too bright, certainly you can do better than they can.

Good luck.