Engine Swap Question

[Klacko]

Hey everyone, I'm looking to do a engine swap. I'm looking for sonething that can bolt right in. I've done some research but I'm still awfully fuzzy on all the letters and terms and all that. Will a 22R bolt right in? Thanks for your help.

[Klacko]

Oh and something fuel injected would be great Thanks again

[tercel4wdrules]

Quite a few people seem interested in engine swaps. The only engine that will swap in easily is the 4AC from the AE86 RWD SR5 coupes or the 4A-LC from the AE82 FWD sedans and hatchbacks. The 4ALC was also available in Chevy Novas from the same time period as the AE82 Corollas ('84-'87). The 4AC/4ALC will provide 8-12 more horsepower and about 10 or so more lb-ft of torque. A 22R will not swap in directly, it will take a lot of patience and money to get it to work. There are members that have done 4AFE swaps, one that did a carbureted 5AF swap, and currently there are two members doing a 4A-GE swap. It depends how much more power you want, and you also have to keep in mind that these transmissions will only handle so much torque as well, so that should be part of your decision. The 4A-FE/7A-FE/4A-GE are all fuel-injected engines that will complicate the swap a further bit more, but the carbureted 4AF also has a few hurdles to overcome when swapping. There are many issues that need to be addressed, if you do a search you will find discussions on these swaps. Good luck.

[Klacko]

Thanks for your help and your input. I appreciate it very much. Now I have something to start my research from. Will I really get much more power out the the 4AC? Is it worth the hassle? What would you recommend I do to get more power out of my Tercel? Thanks for your help again.

[tercel4wdrules]

Sure, glad to help. It is possible to get more horsepower out of the 4AC than the 70 or 74 hp. It will require a performance rebuild. Our member Petros has written quite a bit on this topic. He did the performance modifications to a stock 3A-C engine. You can search his posts on the topic. Most of what I'm going to tell you he has written about elsewhere on the forums.

It is very possible to get a bit more out of the 4AC. The members here that have done the swap have been content with the results of just swapping over the stock 4AC. If you want more power you will have to get a Weber 32/36 carb, have the cam reground by either Delta Cams or Schneider Cams, a bigger diameter exhaust 2"-2.25" is good (you don't want to go bigger than this because you will lose low speed torque) along with a high-flow catalytic converter. You can port-match the intake and exhaust manifolds along with the cylinder head ports as well. On the 4AC you can go with a 1mm overbore and mill the head about .020" and that will raise the compression ratio (but that will likely require you to run 91 or 92 octane pump gas). If you wanted to use the stock 3AC Sealed Power sells flat-top pistons for it and that will raise the compression ratio. You can do these modifications to either the 3AC or 4AC, except the flat-top pistons are not available for the 4AC, so you have to resort to having the head milled to reduce the combustion chamber size to increase the CR. If you go 1mm overbore on the 3AC and flat-top pistons, you don't need to have the head milled (depends if the head was already milled to begin with). You want to keep the CR around 10:1-10.5:1, the lower the better to be safe with 91 pump gas. If you go too high CR, you will have problems with ping and detontation, which can result in head gasket problems and burnt valves. I plan to do these mods soon myself. There are many different cam grinds available, but the "torque" grind from either one of the cam shops will provide best the extra power. The higher duration cams will require doubled single valve springs to avoid coil bind. You should also consider having the flywheel lightened by a machine shop as well, it will improve acceleration and throttle response. It just depends how far you want to go. If you have emissions testing, you might have problems with getting the Weber 32/36 to pass since it is a performance modification. If you still want more, there is a 4AC header available as well, but it will not pass emissions and you will need to have a brace for the intake manifold made as I have heard reports of intake manifolds cracking, possibly due to lack of proper bracing at higher rpms. If you do these mods to a 4AC, you will be looking at close to 90 hp to the crank for the 4AC and possibly 80 or so on the 3AC, although I could be off a bit in my estimation.

I saw a dyno sheet for a AE86 SR5 with a modified 4AC. It had the Weber 32/36, S&S header (no longer available I believe), 2.25" exhaust, and Schneider 260 grind. It put out 82 hp and 93 lb-ft of torque to the wheels. I don't know what the drivetrain loss is for the T50 transmission, but he was estimating mid 90's to low 100's hp to the flywheel. I don't know what the drivetrain loss is with our transmissions either. With this much horsepower, I'm sure the car will feel completely different, at least that's what I'm hoping for since I'm going to do something similar.

I hope this helps you decide what your options are. The problem is that once you go over a certain amount of power, you will have to start addressing the new problems that will be created as well, so you will have to keep that in mind.

[Klacko]

Wow, thank you. I think I'm going to do the cam grind, flywheel, weber carb, larger exhaust and maybe get my 3AC bored out. I dont know if I really want to fork out the extra cash for higher octane fuel though. I was reading 83toybeater's posts on his 4A-FE swap and that kind of caught my eye. Fuel injection appeals to me because at higher inclines I'll still be getting fuel to my engine. I'll do more research on that one though. 80hp out of the 3AC sounds pretty good. I wonder if a proformance rebuild on the 3AC, and the cam grind, flywheel, weber and exhaust would be enough? And if I could get a hold of a AE86, I'd have everything I'd need for the 4AC swap correct? Thanks again.

[tercel4wdrules]

No problem, just trying to help out. I'm sure the Tercel will feel a lot different with 80 hp to the crank. In order to take advantage of the cam, you really need slightly higher compression ratio for better results. You will still see results with the rebuild, but it won't be as great unless you raise the CR a bit. As Petros has mentioned before, you will get slightly better MPG from raising the CR even if you have to use 91 octane fuel. I myself am running 91 at the moment and I have seen a slight improvement with advanced timing. However, if you really don't want to have to use 91, then you can just have the head slightly milled and have the 3AC bored out 1mm.

In my opinion, I think that an 80 hp 3AC will feel good enough, I'm sure you can also ask Petros on his opinion since his is making more or less this much power. However, it will be difficult to squeeze this much power out of it without raising the CR high enough, so keep this in mind as well.

I have driven a Tercel with a JDM 3A engine and it had the Delta Cam regrind and Weber carb and with the rest of the stuff stock, I did see the gain in performance. The greatest difference with the Weber is better throttle response. It will be up to you how much you want to spend and how far you want to take it.

A fuel injection swap seems appealing, but you have to weigh the advantages and disadvantages of having to sort and how much power gain you will be getting.

You don't have to necessarily have to find an AE86, you can find the 4ALC from a Chevy Nova or the AE82 Corollas which should be plentiful in the junkyards. There will be a few items you will need to swap over from your 3AC, so just search the forums for the information as that has been discussed on here more than once.

I hope this helps. I can't wait to pull a 4AC/4ALC and do this myself...

[Klacko]

Thanks for your help, you helped me out alot. I'll probably start a post once I start get the ball rolling. I appreciate your help. Let me know how your overhaul goes.

[Petros]

Klacko,

If you make it to the meet on the 15th I will let you dive my Tercel. It is an '84 with 11.2:1 compression, the Delta Cams regrind, a lightened flywheel and the 1mm overbore, among a few other tweaks. It still has the stock carb. Than you can see if it is powerful enough. It likely produces about 75-80 hp. I think now it is just adequate, still somewhat slow if fully loaded, but okay in daily driving, making pulling out into traffic safer, and hills, snow or off road a lot more fun. I want more power and better economy, so I eventually will be doing a 4age swap to get both, and than also have EFI.

[Klacko]

Petros,
I won't be able to make it on the 15th sadly, lucky for me I get to work all that day. But I think I'm just gonna do the cam and flywheel for now. Sounds like its just that extra something I'm looking for. I haven't had much time to look into price of the delta cam and flywheel. How much did all that run you?

[JDNightFox]

There's a local guy selling a 92 Tercel with the 1500 12 valve EFI can I just steal that and put it in my 86

[teranfirbt]

Pretty sure the E motor out of the later Tercel won't bolt straight onto the Z54 transaxle. I've been running a 5AFE (now 4AFE since I replaced the bottom end with a bored out block to 1.6) for about 6 months and it's about perfect for the Tercel. It does take a fair amount of fabrication for the exhaust, cooling system, and intake. I've got a thread in the gallery section that's got the highlights, hit me up if you want more details.

I wouldn't go bigger than 2" exhaust on any engine making less than 150 horsepower, no reason. 2" mandrel bent will flow better than 2.25" crush bent anyway.

[JDNightFox]

Yeah I'm not liking the 1" pipe at all so I'll probably step it up to 2"

How about a head swap? Are the head bolt patterns the same? A popular thing for Jeep owners is to swap out their old inline 6 head for the 90's EFI one and have that system running on their old motor.

[teranfirbt]

Based on the head gasket, even if the bolt pattern is the same, none of the oil return ports are near close to the A block. Toyota engines share parts when they're in family, but family to family is generally pretty limited.

[lannvouivre]

except the flat-top pistons are not available for the 4AC

Sometimes you can get piston companies to make you this kind of stuff. Crower offers custom regrinds and such, but you're looking at something like $300 per cam in the case of cams (I have some Crower stage 1s in my 1ZZ, those were $420 and not custom).

Wiseco may make some custom 4AC pistons:
http://www.wiseco.com/Automotive/Pistons.aspx