No start, VERY frustrated.

[dlb]

that compression is grim but would not prevent it from starting.

didn't you already swap a known good distributor in? if so, i think you can rule that out. i would swap the carb from your running car just as a test measure. it only involves 4 nuts and the vacuum hoses, can be done in 30 mins.

[larry mcgrath]

the little silver "dealey " is a capisitor that helps eliminate static in the radio (there it one on the altinator also) your compression test indicates that this has more than enuf to start ,the numbers will improve if the test is done with the engine at operating temp ,hard to do if it wont start. Proper method to run Compression Test 1 Full charged battery 2 All spark plugs pulled 3 throtle held, or blocked wide open, when cranking. 4 engine at operating temp. 5 crank engine over 5-6 times and take a reading. I would agree with every one here you have this out of time, loosen the dizzy and turn it a little c/w or cc/w till it starts. Larry

[irowiki]

I'd say the ignition system is fine, and try to retime it as per the above post.

[dlb]

just had a thought. could the spark plug wires be mixed up at the distributor end?

[tealindy]

You would think i would be a little more excited than i am to have finally solved the problem, but i never really had that "Ah Ha!" moment.

I got some new (champion) plugs, a new rotor button and stole the dizzy cap off of the good running car and put them on. Key element: I thought the dizzy cap that was originaly on there was ok, the contacts were very worn, but i cleaned them up a lot and they looked much better, but there was still a significant rusty grove cut into each contact point. Whatever the case my be, with the new plugs, new rotor button and better condition cap i tried to start it again. I poured about a tablespoon of gas down the carb, got in put the gas pedal to the floor and let it crank for a good 5 or 6 seconds, the engine sputtering and coughing more and more with each revolution until it finally caught. I let it idle for about 30 seconds then turned it off and let it sit for a few minutes. After about 5 min I tried again, no gas, not pressing the pedal it fired right up without hesitation and idled like a dream. Buttoned everything back up and took it for a very quick ride, less than a mile, i am suprised how well it ran. MUCH better than anything i can remember.

I will be replacing both the distributor cap AND rotor button on both cars with import direct replacements, today, they should be here at about 2:30pm


I ended up adjusting the timing belt by 1 tooth as well, which i think helped.

[marlinh]

Congratulations on solving your problem. Must be satisfying for you.

[dlb]

i assumed when you changed the dizzy from your good car, the cap, rotor, and wires came with it. i should have asked. regardless, i've never had a dizzy cap or rotor be so worn as to cause a no-start situation i wouldn't have guessed it. so if it's worth anything to you, i just learned from your experience!

glad you finally got it figured out, tealindy. congrats.

[Petros]

I have had bad caps on other cars, sometimes they looked perfectly good, no obivous issue. they develop tiny carbon tracks that allow the spark to short to ground. surprised you has a spark, perhaps it was weak. you should get a strong whitish spark that goes "snap! snap! snap!" when you test it. If weak, or yellow, or intermittant, that is no good. Under the more difficult conditions of combustion it will short to ground rather than jump the spark plug gap in the combustion chamber.

When everything else checks out I will always suspect the cap or wires if they are very old.

[tealindy]

Congratulations on solving your problem. Must be satisfying for you.

Not nearly as much as i thought it would be, but i am some what pleased that the car is running again and pretty good at that.

i assumed when you changed the dizzy from your good car, the cap, rotor, and wires came with it. i should have asked. regardless, i've never had a dizzy cap or rotor be so worn as to cause a no-start situation i wouldn't have guessed it. so if it's worth anything to you, i just learned from your experience!

glad you finally got it figured out, tealindy. congrats.

The funny thing is that i did swap everything over as a whole unit from the other car including the, wires, cap, and rotor, but it didnt make a difference. I think the reason for that was i neglected to set the timing up properly. I just kinda slapped the dizzy in there and set the timing all half assed.

I have had bad caps on other cars, sometimes they looked perfectly good, no obivous issue. they develop tiny carbon tracks that allow the spark to short to ground. surprised you has a spark, perhaps it was weak. you should get a strong whitish spark that goes "snap! snap! snap!" when you test it. If weak, or yellow, or intermittant, that is no good. Under the more difficult conditions of combustion it will short to ground rather than jump the spark plug gap in the combustion chamber.

When everything else checks out I will always suspect the cap or wires if they are very old.

I had spark the whole time, but i dont have a very good eye, yet, when it comes to telling if its a good strong spark. It was a very dull yellowish spark and there was no "snapping" like you are referring to. It is probably way over due for a tune up. I am pretty sure it was the original equipment.

[Petros]

well, yes. a bad cap will not allow it to run. I had installed a completely rebuilt engine in my daughters CRX, all new internals, but uses all of the old external stuff (which was running fine before it got badly overheated). It would crank and crank, start and sputter, sputter, sometimes die. very poor running. changes wires, put in new plugs, checked the timeing..again, still same thing. Put in new cap, voila! starts right up!

Once many years ago when my sister returned home from collage in a beater Chevy Nova, barely running on half the cylinders. We check plugs, wires, points, etc. could not find the cause, with the cap off someone wanted to see if the points were opening and closing by cranking it over. I was standing to the side and could see right inside the distributor cap, when the engine cranked the inside of the cap looked like a lightning storm, streams of electricity everywhere! I yelled, "its the cap!". I had even done a detailed visual inspection of the cap, it looked fine inside and out so I did not suspect it (nor anyone else). Replacing made it run perfectly.

Do not overlook the distributor cap, nor even the rotor. I have never had a bad rotor, but I know some that have. it shorted the spark internally, and it looked fine on inspection.

[tealindy]

New parts that are in fact faulty are probably the #1 hardest thing to diagnosis. Who would suspect that the very part you put on to fix the problem is now the source of it.

[dlb]

New parts that are in fact faulty are probably the #1 hardest thing to diagnosis. Who would suspect that the very part you put on to fix the problem is now the source of it.

agreed, big time. such a waste of time, particularly on big jobs like clutches. then i wish i could be reimbursed by the part maker for my time spent rolling around in the dirt an extra time.

[Petros]

that why I always try and avoid buying remanufactured parts, and parts made by communists. many of the low end China made parts are junk right out of the box, same with reman. parts.

[celtglen]

One other thing to think about is the vacuum pump TO the EGR valve. There is a little gauzy filter in the top of it, you can replace that or simply blow the carbon out of it..if it is blocked the car can stall. If the EGR valve is original there is a new one on Ebnay for 49 bucks..a toyo brand. If I had the $$ I would buy another just to hve it on hand.

I finally changed my origianl one out at 300K..it took HOURS of strong armin it off the tube it connects to but worth the trouble. poped a new one on--with anti seize--and the car ran like a top. I spent decades carving out the accumilated carbon in the original EGR valve..once I found one on ebay--in 2007--for 85 bucks I grabbed it.

CG